Hypocrites?

[Mago]

Ehhh... I dunno about the neglecting children part. Kids love fucked up shit. I watched a dude get his spinal column ripped out in Predator when I was 6 or 7. My mum sat next to me the entire time, explaining how they did the various blood effects and what not.

I've turned out mostly fine.

Same for me, no problem with that. Letting the TV handle the kids all day on their own is what I think can start a problem, that as Mutant seems to think most of the people have.

Of course not at all.
As i already said many times here, it is about their real participation in projects that show the cool side of firearms, not about the fictional content of these works.

That's were you got it backwards, I don't think that these type of movie are made to show the cool side of firearms. If they are, then at least the message doesn't get to me, nor anyone I every watched a movie of that kind with.

The Downfall was not a glorification of Hitler or nazis, the makers of this movie didn't show them as cool guys every youngster would want to copy.

No glorification in other movies either, so it is the same thing.

Twisting and overblowing your debate opponents words is not a good tactic.

Not doing that, it's the impression I get from your arguments.

Did you see The Expendables ?
One thing that they decided was necessary for increasing the "fun", "coolness" factor was one of our heroes using explosive shotgun shells to literally blow people to bits.

Yeah I saw it, cool movie. Haven't seen the 2nd part yet.

I think you can imagine how a young stupid male reacts to seeing things like that.
"Whoooah his stomach exploded ! Hahahaha i want that weapon ! This is the best movie ever !"

People like that aren't allowed to watch that movie, cause they can't differ (again) between fiction and real life. With 18 years (I think the uncut version is FSK around here, dunno if the part you refer to is in the version for 16 or not, that's not for me to judge) you really should be old enough to not react the way you described...so, like a 6 year old, I'd guess. Again, if that is not the case, then you have a whole bunch of bigger problems to tackle. Since you then said ->

Again it is not directly promoting or preaching, it is showing the "cool guys" using the "cool weapons" to do "awesome things".
And yes - a normal, adult, sane person will not be affected at all, sad thing is that the world population is not made 100% of such people.

So it is made of people running around killing people after watching such movies? Really?
Did I miss that the "death by lawn mower" rate went significently up after the movie "Braindead" was released? And how many of those shotgun stomache explosion kills were commited after The Expendables? More than usual?

Weren't you the guy who wants armored guards with non lethal weapons at schools? If you allready think a freaking MOVIE can affect and ADULT in the way you're describing, what kind of role models are guys, standing there, showing "it's ok to harm, if you only don't hurt someone lethally" for KIDS?
I think you have a pretty twisted way to see things, pretty hypocritical, actually, if I haven't missed a point about the logic behind that.

 

[DanLights]

So I can say eating meat is terrible and you shouldn't do it, do a PSA/commercial to further said beliefs and then do a movie where I play a USDA inspector in a slaughter house because it's not real?

Good to know the double standard is still ok around here.

In before my example is "not the same thing."

What the hell? How is that wrong and hypocritical at all?? It's acting, as long there is no REAL unnecessary slaughter happening for the sake of the film, how is it hypocritical in any way to play a role whose morals are different from yours? That's kind of the whole point of acting isn't it?

 

[Mutant]

That's were you got it backwards, I don't think that these type of movie are made to show the cool side of firearms. If they are, then at least the message doesn't get to me, nor anyone I every watched a movie of that kind with.

Action movies.
Why are they so popular ?
Is it because of the story that would rival "Gone with the wind" ?
Or because of the great acting ?
I don't think so.
It is because people like watching good guys kick bad guys asses in various bloody ways - simply for them it is good entertainment.

Yeah I saw it, cool movie. Haven't seen the 2nd part yet.

Yes i saw and enjoyed it too even though it was extremely unrealistic while i like realistic combat and tactics in movies.
For you what exactly was the coolest thing in it ?

People like that aren't allowed to watch that movie, cause they can't differ (again) between fiction and real life. With 18 years (I think the uncut version is FSK around here, dunno if the part you refer to is in the version for 16 or not, that's not for me to judge) you really should be old enough to not react the way you described...so, like a 6 year old, I'd guess. Again, if that is not the case, then you have a whole bunch of bigger problems to tackle.

By stupid young males i meant young adults, not children.
Of course some children will see it anyway.

So it is made of people running around killing people after watching such movies? Really?
Did I miss that the "death by lawn mower" rate went significently up after the movie "Braindead" was released? And how many of those shotgun stomache explosion kills were commited after The Expendables? More than usual?

I was not talking about that.
The topic here is "Killing people with guns on the silver screen for the entertainment of masses and then talking about how guns are bad is or is not hypocrisy".

Weren't you the guy who wants armored guards with non lethal weapons at schools?

Yes i think it is OK to harm people while defending innocents and that it is better to use nonlethal methods than to use guns to defend children in schools.

If you allready think a freaking MOVIE can affect and ADULT in the way you're describing

It is a fact that culture affects masses, one will be affected one way, another will be affected other way, you or me will not be affected at all because we just don't fucking care and/or have a strong enough barrier between fiction and reality in our minds and 1 in every 10 millions will go totally crazy.

 

[Mutant]

What the hell? How is that wrong and hypocritical at all?? It's acting, as long there is no REAL unnecessary slaughter happening for the sake of the film, how is it hypocritical in any way to play a role whose morals are different from yours? That's kind of the whole point of acting isn't it?

It is a question of morality.
For some it will be something very wrong and a reason to be ashamed of themselves if they joined a project that goes totally against what they believe in.
Others will have 0 problems with it.

 

[Mago]

Action movies.
Why are they so popular ?
Is it because of the story that would rival "Gone with the wind" ?
Or because of the great acting ?
I don't think so.
It is because people like watching good guys kick bad guys asses in various bloody ways - simply for them it is good entertainment.

You're right on that. It's for entertainment, not looking for role models.

Yes i saw and enjoyed it too even though it was extremely unrealistic while i like realistic combat and tactics in movies.
For you what exactly was the coolest thing in it ?

Honestly it has been 2 years since I saw it, but I think towards the end there was some intruding into a house with some explosion going on? I think that was pretty well made, iirc.

By stupid young males i meant young adults, not children.
Of course some children will see it anyway.

Still you're emplying that they are affected far more than I think they are.
Do you have some proove on that? Statistics or that kind of stuff?

I was not talking about that.
The topic here is "Killing people with guns on the silver screen for the entertainment of masses and then talking about how guns are bad is or is not hypocrisy".

Eh, no, you were->
""Whoooah his stomach exploded ! Hahahaha i want that weapon ! This is the best movie ever !""
Sounds to me like you said they want that weapon to be the cool guy in the movie and act like him.
I'm very well aware of the topic, but you're the one saying that it is more than just entertainment for some (allready searching for facts to back that up?)

Yes i think it is OK to harm people while defending innocents and that it is better to use nonlethal methods than to use guns to defend children in schools.

It is a fact that culture affects masses, one will be affected one way, another will be affected other way, you or me will not be affected at all because we just don't fucking care and/or have a strong enough barrier between fiction and reality in our minds and 1 in every 10 millions will go totally crazy.

Still keen on those facts, and nice how you dodged by last 2 sentences while answering all the other ones.

It is a question of morality.
For some it will be something very wrong and a reason to be ashamed of themselves if they joined a project that goes totally against what they believe in.
Others will have 0 problems with it.

For movies aimed for entertainment or to simply tell a story? No.
To be clear, we're talking about movies made to entertain, not propaganda BS.

 

[drew_drummer]

It is a question of morality.
For some it will be something very wrong and a reason to be ashamed of themselves if they joined a project that goes totally against what they believe in.
Others will have 0 problems with it.

Hopefully we can agree that if my morality differs from yours, that doesn't necessarily make me a hypocrite. Otherwise we're firmly planted in the realm of religious discourse - like we've gone cow-tipping and are now stuck in the shit.

 

[Mutant]

Heh.
Today while looking for recent pics of one of my favorite gravure idols Minamo Kusano (i was curious if she still has the cute yaeba tooth), i ended up on a japanese adult video store site and after some random browsing i saw a cover of one of these fully legal in Japan videos in which they make a 18 year old girl who looks 13 wear clothes and hair that make her look under 10... the main selling line on the cover: "143 cm"... and pics of her being tied and "raped"...
I hate seeing video covers by that company, it makes my mind freeze for a moment like if i just saw something that should not possibly exist.
I will not tell you exactly where to find it because i felt my computer got "dirty" and cleared all temp files and recent history.
Just imagine a porn video cover with a fully clothed girl that looks VERY underage.
But why am i telling you all that ?

---

Lets assume that 100% of us here share about the same view about rape and pedophilia. Right ?
That violent pedophilia crimes should be punished with death or at least physical castration and life in prison and nonviolent pedophilia maybe pharmaceutical castration and also life in prison.

So...

Based on both the "rape" being just performance and not a real rape and the performer who played the part of a raped girl not really being a child, would you say that you would have absolutely no problems with you working on such videos ?

It is a very simple question you can answer with "yes" or "no".

Do you have the courage to answer the question ?

---

And lets assume that all here share the same view about killing people.
That it is justifiable only in defense and all other killing should be punished severely by law, that even killing "bad guys" is wrong because these bad guys can have families that love them.

Also from the other thread i know that some of us are strongly against using firearms even in self defense and thats the crowd i am directing the following question at.

A good hero shoots and kills a bad guy in a movie.

Based on both the "shooting" being just a performance and not a real shooting and the performer who played the part of that killed bad guy not really being an evil criminal, would you say that you would have absolutely no problems with you working on such movies ?

Just edited few words here - it stays almost exactly the same question as the one above - just a different topic.

Can you now answer such question ?

 

[Skinny Viking]

you just said violent pedophilia should be punishable by death and then go on to say that killing is only justifiable in self defense

thats hypocritical

or just another self-contradiction

I'll let you choose

 

[Skinny Viking]

however to answer your ridiculous question in that ridiculous scenario

no, I wouldn't work on that movie. Because the chick is ACTUALLY getting fucked, regardless of if she's actually 18 or not

however a movie with a plot element detailing the rape of a minor ... I could work on that BECAUSE ITS FICTION

 

[Mutant]

you just said violent pedophilia should be punishable by death and then go on to say that killing is only justifiable in self defense

thats hypocritical

or just another self-contradiction

I'll let you choose

Thats my emotions taking over.
I could explain it by telling you that i don't really think about pedophiles as people, i feel pity for their parents though..
So if they are not people and we don't really need such shit in our society...

however to answer your ridiculous question in that ridiculous scenario

A real world scenario.

no, I wouldn't work on that movie. Because the chick is ACTUALLY getting fucked, regardless of if she's actually 18 or not

OK
You have a problem with an adult being fucked by another adult.
It was not really an answer to my question, but ok...

however a movie with a plot element detailing the rape of a minor ... I could work on that BECAUSE ITS FICTION

You completely missed the point of the girl being underage and raped also being FICTION.

 

[Skinny Viking]

no I didn't fuckstick ... the point is one is actually happening and the other is a work of fiction

and no I have no problem with one adult fucking another adult and yes I see the obvious ambiguity in that situation you're trying desperately to point out but at the same time even if the chick looked 30 and the particular fetish was shit eating I wouldn't work on that either

however I would work on a film where someone beat someone as part of the storyline and then forced a fistful of shit in their mouth to further degrade them

one is real, one is not

if you can't or won't see the validity of that difference then there is nowhere else for this to go

you win

 

[Mutant]

{self edited to deescalate the flames}

 

[Mutant]

and no I have no problem with one adult fucking another adult and yes I see the obvious ambiguity in that situation you're trying desperately to point out but at the same time even if the chick looked 30 and the particular fetish was shit eating I wouldn't work on that either

Thank you very much.
That is an excellent proof to my main point.

Because of your moral beliefs you would not work on something that goes against these beliefs. Doing it would make you a hypocrite.

Thank you again.

 

[DanLights]

It is a question of morality.
For some it will be something very wrong and a reason to be ashamed of themselves if they joined a project that goes totally against what they believe in.
Others will have 0 problems with it.

No. No. Am I in the fucking twilight zone? It's a MOVIE, you're ACTING, your morals are not those of the character you play (not necessarily at least), and if you're not ACTUALLY infringing on your morals (if you're vegan and appear to be eating meat but it's fake meat or a visual trick or whatever, you're not infringing your own morals because you're not really doing it, just faking it for the sake if the film, if it's real meat, well yes you're a hypocrite) then there is no hypocrisy, the whole point of good acting is to convince people who know it's fake that you actually are that character, flaws, morals, reasoning and all.

Your stupid question, if you ask me as a professional actor if I would do the first (with the girl not actually being raped, because it is in my personal morality to not have sex with anyone but my wife, and not in a film for everyone to see, even if it is my wife), I would have to judge the whole movie if it really is worth and valuable to include a (fake) minor rape scene and if it would actually add to the movie, but I probably wouldn't because it would just feel weird, but then again I'm not an actor and not good at faking morals. I certainly wouldn't call anyone a hypocrite if they did it even if they made a TV ad against child pornography or peadophilia, once again, as long as it's fake.

I love horror films, love gore, listen to music with brutally violent, gory and offensive lyrics, I sing along to them, but even if I joyfully sing about killing pregnant sluts and baby fetuses, I certainly am against anyone actually doing it, and so are the bands who wrote and perform those songs.

 

[Mago]

You didn't get what he said at all.

Let's keep it easy:
Working on a film were a REAL person actually get's murdered -> No.
Working on a film were a CHARACTER/ROLE get's murdered for the storyline, but the actor doesn't -> Yes.

It doesn't have anything to do with moral.

 

[Mutant]

No. No. Am I in the fucking twilight zone? It's a MOVIE, you're ACTING, your morals are not those of the character you play (not necessarily at least), and if you're not ACTUALLY infringing on your morals (if you're vegan and appear to be eating meat but it's fake meat or a visual trick or whatever, you're not infringing your own morals because you're not really doing it, just faking it for the sake if the film, if it's real meat, well yes you're a hypocrite) then there is no hypocrisy, the whole point of good acting is to convince people who know it's fake that you actually are that character, flaws, morals, reasoning and all.

As i already wrote here.
Culture has an effect on people.
Why do you think there exists such a thing as product placement ?
Why do some companies pay megabucks for James Bond using their products in movies ?
BECAUSE CULTURE HAS A FUCKING EFFECT ON MASSES !
This is the reality.
It is a common knowledge and if you don't accept that common knowledge then it is your problem.

I love horror films, love gore, listen to music with brutally violent, gory and offensive lyrics, I sing along to them, but even if I joyfully sing about killing pregnant sluts and baby fetuses, I certainly am against anyone actually doing it, and so are the bands who wrote and perform those songs.

Your stupid question, if you ask me as a professional actor if I would do the first (with the girl not actually being raped, because it is in my personal morality to not have sex with anyone but my wife, and not in a film for everyone to see, even if it is my wife), I would have to judge the whole movie if it really is worth and valuable to include a (fake) minor rape scene and if it would actually add to the movie, but I probably wouldn't because it would just feel weird, but then again I'm not an actor and not good at faking morals. I certainly wouldn't call anyone a hypocrite if they did it even if they made a TV ad against child pornography or peadophilia, once again, as long as it's fake.

1. I didnt say an actor - i said working as for example creating the soundtracks or mixing the "oh ah" audio..
2. The rest just touches things i already explained but you missed it.

I love horror films, love gore, listen to music with brutally violent, gory and offensive lyrics, I sing along to them, but even if I joyfully sing about killing pregnant sluts and baby fetuses, I certainly am against anyone actually doing it, and so are the bands who wrote and perform those songs.

Once you finally accept the fact that culture changes how people think, you will see the light bulb over your head turn bright and you will say "i am a hypocrite".
It is not such a really bad thing to be a hypocrite (in some other areas i am one too), it is just not a reason to be proud of yourself.

 

[Mutant]

I just remembered an example of an actor who actually tries to not be a hypocrite.

Chuck Norris and Expendables 2...

“In Expendables 2, there was a lot of vulgar dialogue in the screenplay. For this reason, many young people wouldn’t be able to watch this. But I don’t play in movies like this. Due to that I said I won’t be a part of that if the hardcore language is not erased. Producers accepted my conditions and the movie will be classified in the category of PG-13.”

He has his moral code, he doesn't want to create something that goes against that moral code (however twisted by southern Christianity the code is).

 

[Mutant]

And now excuse me because i will have to kill some 600 people now...

















In an online fps game to reach my K/D ratio goal.

Thats one of my hypocrisy types.

 

[Mago]

Damn it Mutant, give some facts on how many real life murders are directly related to movies, or gtfo with your common knowledge (granted, it's a complex subject).

And Chuck Norris? Wtf, the guy kicked the living shit out of people as a texas ranger, and has a problem with swear words? In a movie, where in its first part someone used explosive shotgun shells to blow other guys up?
Not the best exaple you could pick.

 

[DanLights]

As i already wrote here.
Culture has an effect on people.
Why do you think there exists such a thing as product placement ?
Why do some companies pay megabucks for James Bond using their products in movies ?
BECAUSE CULTURE HAS A FUCKING EFFECT ON MASSES !
This is the reality.
It is a common knowledge and if you don't accept that common knowledge then it is your problem.






1. I didnt say an actor - i said working as for example creating the soundtracks or mixing the "oh ah" audio..
2. The rest just touches things i already explained but you missed it.


Once you finally accept the fact that culture changes how people think, you will see the light bulb over your head turn bright and you will say "i am a hypocrite".
It is not such a really bad thing to be a hypocrite (in some other areas i am one too), it is just not a reason to be proud of yourself.

Oh, just doing audio? Like bloody hell I would do it, without a single doubt, why not? It's a job. Again, as long as there's no real peadophilia happening or any other "real" thing that would make me break my personal moral code.

Common knowledge my ass, so now you're that old fart and/or dumbass politician blaming violence on video games? As Marco said, facts or gtfo. I'm a hypocrite for listening to gory songs and not actually doing nor supporting people doing what those songs say? You're an asshole.