Hypocrites?

[Mutant]

Well i lost connection to the server so i am back...

Damn it Mutant, give some facts on how many real life murders are directly related to movies, or gtfo with your common knowledge (granted, it's a complex subject).

Where in this thread did i say about any direct relationship ?
Just register on any forum for psychologists and ask there.

And Chuck Norris? Wtf, the guy kicked the living shit out of people as a texas ranger, and has a problem with swear words? In a movie, where in its first part someone used explosive shotgun shells to blow other guys up?

Thats why i highlighted "tries" and mentioned twistedness of his moral code.

Not the best exaple you could pick.

The example was good mainly because he accually succeeded in convincing the producers to remove enough bad language from the movie to make it PG-13.

 

[Mago]

Where in this thread did i say about any direct relationship ?

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/10517585-post36.html
"I think you can imagine how a young stupid male reacts to seeing things like that.
"Whoooah his stomach exploded ! Hahahaha i want that weapon ! This is the best movie ever !""
See movie->want weapon.
Wanting weapon for what? Cooking nudles?
I think I even quoted that sentence once or twice in here.

Just register on any forum for psychologists and ask there.

So you now want me to do your research work?
Lazy fuck.

Thats why i highlighted "tries" and mentioned twistedness of his moral code.

Then it's even more useless (does that even work when somethings allready useless?) to even mention him in this thread.

The example was good mainly because he accually succeeded in convincing the producers to remove enough bad language from the movie to make it PG-13.

So that is related to this thread and topic because...?
Don't say "because he's less of an hypocrite in that case". He still is.

 

[Mutant]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/10517585-post36.html
"I think you can imagine how a young stupid male reacts to seeing things like that.
"Whoooah his stomach exploded ! Hahahaha i want that weapon ! This is the best movie ever !""
See movie->want weapon.
Wanting weapon for what? Cooking nudles?
I think I even quoted that sentence once or twice in here.

You asked me:

Damn it Mutant, give some facts on how many real life murders are directly related to movies

Being in awe about some stupid shit in a movie is very far from doing things like the stupid shit in the movie.

And yes do visit the psychologists forum and ask them "do movies, books and art change how we think and behave ?", because whatever i will say here you will refuse to accept, your views are just too far from mine - my wasted time.

Yeah culture has no effect on people, absolutely 0 influence on how they think or act, no one ever got inspired by any work on fiction, no one ever changed his views... (sarcasm)

 

[Mutant]

Oh, just doing audio? Like bloody hell I would do it, without a single doubt, why not? It's a job. Again, as long as there's no real peadophilia happening or any other "real" thing that would make me break my personal moral code.

Are we sure that we are talking about the same thing here ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_child_pornography

Simulated child pornography is defined as pornography depicting minors that is produced without the direct involvement of children in the production process itself.

Because i can't believe you just said the thing you said.
There has to be some misunderstanding.
I want to believe you are a good person.
Maybe you just should first look at these covers - the company name was "minimum" something so if you google images with that keyword and add "jav", most probably you will find them there.
Brace yourself though because it will be BAD.

Helping to make such a filthy movie that would be bought by some of the worst scum on the earth (who the hell buys something like this ?) is just a job ?

 

[Line666]

To be honest I think people often like pieces of art that they see as affirming their current life views rather than being influenced by them directly; it's like when Ozzy Osborne got sued by families whose kids had committed suicide saying that his song 'Suicide Solution' had directly influenced them - now that got thrown out of court because there was no direct correlation but to take a look at that situation you see that people find affirmation in things they think relate to them and then act according to how they naturally perceive the world anyway. The process is thought > perceived affirmation > action; culture often has a stylistic effect on the way people carry out their actions but is not a real conduit to pushing people into psychotic mindsets - that's a process that happens on its own and you don't need a great degree of insight to realise lots of people were still murdered before television or music or any 'modern' culture processes.

 

[Mutant]

To be honest I think people often like pieces of art that they see as affirming their current life views rather than being influenced by them directly; it's like when Ozzy Osborne got sued by families whose kids had committed suicide saying that his song 'Suicide Solution' had directly influenced them - now that got thrown out of court because there was no direct correlation but to take a look at that situation you see that people find affirmation in things they think relate to them and then act according to how they naturally perceive the world anyway. The process is thought > perceived affirmation > action; culture often has a stylistic effect on the way people carry out their actions but is not a real conduit to pushing people into psychotic mindsets - that's a process that happens on its own and you don't need a great degree of insight to realise lots of people were still murdered before television or music or any 'modern' culture processes.

Thats exactly what i meant.
A very small gradual crawling change on the society as a whole.
The society is not uniform though, there are extremes in both directions.
So we can't say that if it doesn't affect me in any way, it won't affect anyone else.

 

[Line666]

Thats exactly what i meant.
A very small gradual crawling change on the society as a whole.

I never said it changed anything in society as a whole. I said people with psychotic mindsets will look for affirmation in things they see as congruent with that particular mindset (even if they are not) and then will act how they were going to act anyway eg crazy.

Your reply is actually an example of such response to a catalyst because you took me saying one thing and used it as validation for your statement where you essentially said something else entirely.

 

[Mago]

Being in awe about some stupid shit in a movie is very far from doing things like the stupid shit in the movie.

so now you're agreeing with me on that these type of movies don't get people to freak out?
If not, what was that sentence supposed to mean?

And yes do visit the psychologists forum and ask them "do movies, books and art change how we think and behave ?", because whatever i will say here you will refuse to accept, your views are just too far from mine - my wasted time.

Yeah culture has no effect on people, absolutely 0 influence on how they think or act, no one ever got inspired by any work on fiction, no one ever changed his views... (sarcasm)

Fuck no, I won't do any of your fucking homework, if you want to proove your paranoia about how fucked up the world is (I also think it is,but appearantly not nearly as much as you do).
Did you even read any of my posts?
I even wrote something along the lines of that last paragraph (somewhere on the last page I think), and I didn't say that it has absolutely 0 influence on society.

If you're trying to argue, but are not smart enough to read my whole post, then you're the one wasting my time.

 

[Terminus]

Chucck Norris wont say the word fuck but he has no issue with walking through an airport double-fisting machine guns taking out 'bad guys'.

It's for the kids, you see.

 

[Mutant]

Culture has a small influence on society - i think we already agreed on that broad statement.
In rare cases, easily influenced people will do various bad things after being inspired by movies/books/songs - to me it is an undeniable reality, Mago seems to disagree and wants a proof which i am too lazy to find and give to him.

I could find some havily biased article, but it will be better if i provide you with some unbiased search terms so you can filter out all the biased articles on your own:
http://www.google.com/search?q="murders+inspired+by"
http://www.google.com/search?q="murders+inspired+by+movies"
http://www.google.com/search?q="crimes+inspired+by"
Click on the links Google will show, i am sure you will find some bullshit, but you may also find some truth.
It is really not my job to teach you how this world works.

 

[drew_drummer]

Heh.
Today while looking for recent pics of one of my favorite gravure idols Minamo Kusano (i was curious if she still has the cute yaeba tooth), i ended up on a japanese adult video store site and after some random browsing i saw a cover of one of these fully legal in Japan videos in which they make a 18 year old girl who looks 13 wear clothes and hair that make her look under 10... the main selling line on the cover: "143 cm"... and pics of her being tied and "raped"...
I hate seeing video covers by that company, it makes my mind freeze for a moment like if i just saw something that should not possibly exist.
I will not tell you exactly where to find it because i felt my computer got "dirty" and cleared all temp files and recent history.
Just imagine a porn video cover with a fully clothed girl that looks VERY underage.
But why am i telling you all that ?

Hmm. Maybe you know my wife is Japanese and you're trying to get a rise out of me? Maybe not, I dunno.

I personally don't see a problem with the situation you've described - if she's going into it willingly, and isn't being forced to do anything she doesn't want to. But that example you've brought up isn't violent paedophilia, shit.. it isn't even paedophilia. It's completely simulated, and if it was done tastefully, I'd work on it.

But that's where I draw my line - whether something is tastefully done or not. I don't preclude enjoyment or even the existence of something that might offend more vanilla sensibilities like yours.

Your train of thought leads to censorship, no question. I am a fan of intellectual and creative freedom - almost at any cost.

 

[drew_drummer]

In rare cases, easily influenced people will do various bad things after being inspired by movies/books/songs - to me it is an undeniable reality

I think I can agree to a certain extent to this.

But honestly? Those people will find anything to be influenced by. You can't just start limiting freedom and creative thought to try and protect the unprotectable.

 

[Mutant]

I think I can agree to a certain extent to this.

But honestly? Those people will find anything to be influenced by. You can't just start limiting freedom and creative thought to try and protect the unprotectable.

Yes the problem lies inside them and the inspiration is just an igniting spark.
I never said anything about limiting creative freedom, i think that banning all violence in works of fiction would have bigger negative effect on the society than these few rare deaths or other crimes.
Some of the greatest masterpieces that contain examples of wrongdoing still teach us normal people how to be good and live good lives.

 

[Mutant]

Hmm. Maybe you know my wife is Japanese and you're trying to get a rise out of me? Maybe not, I dunno.

I didn't know.
Well, the so called "yellow fever" is just one of my many interests... there are no asian girls around here so most probably it will remain in the dreams category forever lol

I personally don't see a problem with the situation you've described - if she's going into it willingly, and isn't being forced to do anything she doesn't want to. But that example you've brought up isn't violent paedophilia, shit.. it isn't even paedophilia. It's completely simulated, and if it was done tastefully, I'd work on it.

Yes it is not pedophilia.
But who will buy such movie ?
A movie that looks like something that is very illegal in most countries.
IDK maybe i just can't judge the age of asian people correctly...
Show this pic (safe) to your wife and ask her how old the girl is:
http://s14.postimage.org/z63o4io01/minimum.jpg


I think my natural empathy is very high, so every time i am reminded that a lot of physical and emotional pain gets inflicted on adults and minors around the planet even at this very moment, i feel really bad, in polish i would say "serce mi krwawi/my heart bleeds", so i don't want to be reminded of all that shit especially when i am browsing the internet searching for pictures of some finely shaped women.
Maybe that is what got me so angry - was it an over reaction ? IDK...

 

[drew_drummer]

I didn't know.
Well, the so called "yellow fever" is just one of my many interests... there are no asian girls around here so most probably it will remain in the dreams category forever lol

When I was 18 I moved to London from the middle of England, and I met this girl. I approached women with a completely open mind, as I wanted to build my friend-base quickly, and get some actual social interaction going. So I didn't hook up with her because of "yellow fever" - it was more a case of I noticed she had a nice ass, and wasn't a complete twat... passed my filters anyway!

Yes it is not pedophilia.
But who will buy such movie ?
A movie that looks like something that is very illegal in most countries.

I don't think those movies are illegal per-se, if all the "models" are 18 or over. It's pure fantasy and that is all it is. Not everyone who loves the Hellraiser movie is a BDSM sex-pain freak.

IDK maybe i just can't judge the age of asian people correctly...
Show this pic (safe) to your wife and ask her how old the girl is:
http://s14.postimage.org/z63o4io01/minimum.jpg

Well I just asked her...

So I dunno really; I kind of agree that Asian women (particularly Japanese) are pretty difficult to tell the ages of.

I think my natural empathy is very high, so every time i am reminded that a lot of physical and emotional pain gets inflicted on adults and minors around the planet even at this very moment, i feel really bad, in polish i would say "serce mi krwawi/my heart bleeds", so i don't want to be reminded of all that shit especially when i am browsing the internet searching for pictures of some finely shaped women.
Maybe that is what got me so angry - was it an over reaction ? IDK...

Some men and women like petiteness. Doesn't make them paedos.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Thank you very much.
That is an excellent proof to my main point.

Because of your moral beliefs you would not work on something that goes against these beliefs. Doing it would make you a hypocrite.

Thank you again.

nothing to do with my morals dude, so stop thanking me

its just disgusting, as in I'd puke if I saw that for real

if my morals had anything to do with it I wouldn't work on the FICTIONAL movie portraying the same behavior

I did nothing to prove your point although if it makes you feel better to think I did, run with it

 

[Mutant]

I don't think those movies are illegal per-se, if all the "models" are 18 or over. It's pure fantasy and that is all it is. Not everyone who loves the Hellraiser movie is a BDSM sex-pain freak.

IDK maybe i just can't judge the age of asian people correctly...
Show this pic (safe) to your wife and ask her how old the girl is:
http://s14.postimage.org/z63o4io01/minimum.jpg

Well I just asked her...

So I dunno really; I kind of agree that Asian women (particularly Japanese) are pretty difficult to tell the ages of.



Some men and women like petiteness. Doesn't make them paedos.

I said looks like illegal, not is illegal.
19 ? Well i am suprised. That would also be a total fail for the makers of that movie cover if they wanted the model to look younger than she really is...

 

[Mutant]

nothing to do with my morals

its just disgusting

OK
If not your moral code, what would you name it then ?
Maybe a basic value system ?
There are many reasons normal men don't do it with children - not only because it is disgusting.
The primal instinct subconsciously tells us that only fertile adult women have sexy bodies, that there is just no sense in spending our life energy on prepubescent girls who wont give us any chance of passing our DNA to a new generation.

So something makes you believe that it is disgusting and doing it would be against that belief, or even against your own self.

Doing things that are against your beliefs = hypocrisy.

If someone (not you) said it is disgusting and still did it for money or for whatever other reasons = hypocrite.

 

[Skinny Viking]

So I dunno really; I kind of agree that Asian women (particularly Japanese) are pretty difficult to tell the ages of.

 

[Skinny Viking]

OK
If not your moral code, what would you name it then ?
Maybe a basic value system ?
There are many reasons normal men don't do it with children - not only because it is disgusting.
The primal instinct subconsciously tells us that only fertile adult women have sexy bodies, that there is just no sense in spending our life energy on prepubescent girls who wont give us any chance of passing our DNA to a new generation.

So something makes you believe that it is disgusting and doing it would be against that belief, or even against your own self.

Doing things that are against your beliefs = hypocrisy.

If someone (not you) said it is disgusting and still did it for money or for whatever other reasons = hypocrite.

1st of all we're talking about 2 different things here ... I was making reference to the shit eating video stuff

2nd - like it or not, 14 is not prepubescent so your "primal urge" theory isn't really holding up there.

3rd - you continually skip over the entire point I made multiple times and illustrated in the most low functioning, autistic 1st grader terms possible

Film someone eating shit for real = will not do
Film someone pretending to eat shit in context of fictional movie = will do

Film someone simulating rape of 14 year old (looking) girl who is actually being fucked = will not do

Film someone doing same thing in context of fictional movie (therefore with no actual fucking = will do