I FINALLY got Oblivion...

[El Stormo]

Stormo I didn't mean that in a negative way, hehe. I just meant that you have always raved about it, and you have really good taste in RPGs so it just makes me wanna try it .

I know, don't worry

I'd say my favorite RPGs are Zelda: A Link to the Past on SNES, THE FIRST BLOOD OMEN (holy hell that was an awesome game), FF7, Chrono Cross (haven't played Chrono Trigger, I hear it's even better), Morrowind, Oblivion, the Diablos even though they're hack and slash

Well, the Legend of Zelda series, Blood Omen and FFVII, while great games, aren't RPGs, really.

 

[Chromatose]

[...] FFVII, while great games, aren't RPGs, really.

:zombie:

 

[El Stormo]

:zombie:

There's zero role-playing involved in those games. The entire story is on rails and there are no dialog choices, at least none that have any importance whatsoever. They only thing the FF games have in common with role-playing is that they have characters with stats, that's all.

 

[Jeff-Loomis-fan]

it stays one of the best games ever tough

 

[El Stormo]

That's a definite fact, it's one of the games I'll always want to dig up and replay at some time or other. I absolutely love FFVII, but it's not an RPG.

 

[Chromatose]

It's just the nature of the evolving subgenres. If you're only accepting traditional RPGs as such then you're singlehandedly striking out entire franchises which have expanded and vitalized the industry.

 

[El Stormo]

It's just the nature of the evolving subgenres. If you're only accepting traditional RPGs as such then you're singlehandedly striking out entire franchises which have expanded and vitalized the industry.

In my opinion, two things make a game an RPG: choice and consequence. j"RPGs" like FF don't have this element, which is vital to a role-playing game. You make choices, they influence the world/story. I daresay that this is the core of role-playing games - playing the role of another character. You don't do this in Final Fantasy, you simply sit through the cutscenes and progress exactly the way everyone else progresses.

 

[Karmic]

There's zero role-playing involved in those games. The entire story is on rails and there are no dialog choices, at least none that have any importance whatsoever. They only thing the FF games have in common with role-playing is that they have characters with stats, that's all.

thats a damn lie...

your dialogue choices can get Cloud raped

 

[El Stormo]

thats a damn lie...

your dialogue choices can get Cloud raped

True, and the story progresses vastly differently because of it, right?

 

[Chromatose]

In my opinion, two things make a game an RPG: choice and consequence. j"RPGs" like FF don't have this element, which is vital to a role-playing game. You make choices, they influence the world/story. I daresay that this is the core of role-playing games - playing the role of another character. You don't do this in Final Fantasy, you simply sit through the cutscenes and progress exactly the way everyone else progresses.

Then how does this ascribe to dungeoncrawls? roguelikes, et al? The style is inherently RPG in a "traditional" sense, but seldom is there a choice that majorly impacts the story.

 

[Karmic]

 

[El Stormo]

Then how does this ascribe to dungeoncrawls? roguelikes, et al? The style is inherently RPG in a "traditional" sense, but seldom is there a choice that majorly impacts the story.

I never considered pure hack'n'slash dungeon crawls to be RPGs either. I don't see why people call Diablo an RPG because it isn't. Sure, your character develops over the course of the adventure, so that's a bit of an RPG influence, but only one thing makes an RPG and that's being able to influence the story and the world around you by choices you, as a player, make in the name of your character.

The horror of the Honey Bee Inn!!

 

[Chromatose]

I never considered pure hack'n'slash dungeon crawls to be RPGs either. I don't see why people call Diablo an RPG because it isn't. Sure, your character develops over the course of the adventure, so that's a bit of an RPG influence, but only one thing makes an RPG and that's being able to influence the story and the world around you by choices you, as a player, make in the name of your character.

= Oblivion isn't an RPG either.

 

[Lord Foul]

I never considered pure hack'n'slash dungeon crawls to be RPGs either. I don't see why people call Diablo an RPG because it isn't. Sure, your character develops over the course of the adventure, so that's a bit of an RPG influence, but only one thing makes an RPG and that's being able to influence the story and the world around you by choices you, as a player, make in the name of your character.

But you can't diverge from or alter the main quest in Oblivion either. It is as scripted as the plot of any Final Fantasy. Really the only way you can alter the world is by killing or not killing a given NPC.

 

[Chromatose]

 

[Captain Beard]

And boy, did I kill half the world before finishing the game! Woo!

 

[ShadowsWithin]

usially if im in the mass genocide mood i get the barfight mod and either just get into a bar fight or get the companion share mod recruit them all put them in a room and have at them, total chaos ensues.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

And boy, did I kill half the world before finishing the game! Woo!

I wanted to but there were only a measly 1000ish NPCs and the world was too barren as it was.

 

[El Stormo]

= Oblivion isn't an RPG either.

But you can't diverge from or alter the main quest in Oblivion either. It is as scripted as the plot of any Final Fantasy. Really the only way you can alter the world is by killing or not killing a given NPC.

True, you cannot diverge from the Main Quest. But almost all the quests have different ways of solving them, and quests you complete make the world react differently to you. Not just through fame/infamy, but in dialogue as well. You don't even have to DO the Main Quest! You can advance your character and enjoy the game without doing the Main Quest. In Final Fantasy, there's only the Main Quest, and no MQ advancement = no advancement at all.

That said, Oblivion isn't the figurehead of true RPGs. Indeed, the role-playing aspect has had to move to the background, which is a shame, but it's still an RPG.

 

[Dead Winter]

I loved Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights...but it got so TEDIOUS sometimes and almost impossible to continue if you didn't have the perfect balance of characters. I can't count how many times I had to completely start over with Baldur's Gate. Great story and game, but Oblivion and Morrowind are more my speed. Do whatever you want, whether you choose to do the main quest or not.