I've gotten my best friend into Katatonia and he's gotten quite a few of his friends listening to them now... my other best friend hates them though, he says that they sound like "alternative" and aren't "black metal" enough. Perhaps I'll give him some tracks from the period before Discouraged ones... oh well... it's pretty hopeless anyways, trying to convince a Mansonite to listen to GOOD music! I made the mistake of lending him a King Diamond album once... watch out... hahaha...