I miss the old days!

[Misanthrope]

i miss having friends...NOT.

Thats one thing i dont belive it can exist: honest friendship. "Friends" always want something from you, sometimes is harder to tell because they want emocional things from you, so you feel "connected".

Bunch of bullshit, they always end up stabbing you in the back, always...always...

 

[requiem]

Fortunately one of the two guys I live with is into the same metal I am, and in a big way (cheers brightoffski). My friend back where I grew up is into metal, although I only catch up with him every 4 or 5 months...

Apart from that it's Kush and Klaha who, due to distance, aren't really that available. It's good when we get together though.

Fortunately Brighty is coming to the Mayhem show with me next month, even though he's not really into them all that much! That's what I call a metal friend!!

 

[Lordenlil]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
i miss having friends...NOT.

Thats one thing i dont belive it can exist: honest friendship. "Friends" always want something from you, sometimes is harder to tell because they want emocional things from you, so you feel "connected".

Bunch of bullshit, they always end up stabbing you in the back, always...always...

Paranoia, anyone? Well, your life sounds interesting and stuff, and
your future look bright as well. Ok - so some ppl are assholes, but
others aren't - and I mean, if I'm gonna succeed in the work I do,
I must rely on having some friends that are somewhat trustworthy.
I actually do have some good friends around here who've
done a
LOT to help me with stuff without asking for anything in return.
(oh - aren't I such a lucky guy, huh)

(Even if u're putting on an act or not) Ppl don't always stab you
in the back. But then again I've never been to Mexico.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by saturnix
i have two metal friends, and one of them is turning softpunk/altrock.

(hint: lately, all he's been buying is weezer and afi cd's..... blech! he gets annoyed whenever i play anything metalish in the car)

Yeah, what's with this progression?! The group of guys that got me into metal have now regressed back toward this shoegazer nonsense...and Enya, Anathema, the softer stuff. And their band, which was actually getting some good attention, broke up and reformed as this total Katatonia rip-off, complete with an off-key singer. uke:

I can understand maybe getting tired of all the heavy, aggressive stuff. But how can they listen (and play) music that's so much simpler? It's like they don't want to challenge themselves anymore...which wouldn't surprise me since they're religious and don't like challenging themselves mentally in any other arena.

Another aspect of the situation that annoys me is that, since they introduced me to metal, they still consider me to be the newbie -- even though I know tons they don't know. But they aren't willing to take recommendations from the newbie.

Anyway, at least my b/f and I are into the same stuff (not coincidentally, I'm sure), and I've got you guys to talk to for new recommendations.

 

[Morningrise]

I think having friends that you can relate to on a personal level is much more important than having metal friends. I unfortunately have no friends that are as into this type of music as I am, and really want some. Once I get to college and can get out though it would be nice. People my age regardless aren't really as into music as I am in a lot of cases...

 

[Punisher]

i have 2 metal friends... and those 2 only listen to what i listen to, they never find any new band they like themselves. i always show them what i like and then they "like" it too, or at least listen to it... it's depressing. i would really like a metal friend who is somewhat independent!!

 

[Misanthrope]

Originally posted by Lina
Yeah, what's with this progression?! The group of guys that got me into metal have now regressed back toward this shoegazer nonsense...and Enya, Anathema, the softer stuff. And their band, which was actually getting some good attention, broke up and reformed as this total Katatonia rip-off, complete with an off-key singer. uke:

I can understand maybe getting tired of all the heavy, aggressive stuff. But how can they listen (and play) music that's so much simpler? It's like they don't want to challenge themselves anymore...which wouldn't surprise me since they're religious and don't like challenging themselves mentally in any other arena.

Another aspect of the situation that annoys me is that, since they introduced me to metal, they still consider me to be the newbie -- even though I know tons they don't know. But they aren't willing to take recommendations from the newbie.

Anyway, at least my b/f and I are into the same stuff (not coincidentally, I'm sure), and I've got you guys to talk to for new recommendations.

Simplicity its beauty Lina ( at the very least in music ). Not everything you feel is a complex emotion, therefore not every form of music needs to be a complex expression. I think you are letting your katatonia bias get to you because, beyond the off key singer, you truly sound like you are not giving them a chance just because they now appreciate a band you hate.

Its probably hard to understand unless you are on a band, but to my experience most bands start doing something really original or great and the reaction of people who loves its is at first overwhelming, but is a double edge blade since once you come up with that sound or style everyone likes people just wants you to become a fucking robot and wants you to really limit your exploration into another things ( see Opeth ) and if you listen to them you end up being formulatic ( again see opeth ) repetitive, unoriginal and dull. And it doesnt matter how good is the early stuff, you still human and sometimes you hold your creative force for too long until there is no other option but to start over.

Look at the bands you mentioned, they all seem to follow that line of progress to me. But can you honestly flame them knowing you never been on their shoes? do you know what it takes to say to the entire world " im fucking fed up with this, i need a change" ? you know how hard is to start over from the ground when everyone hates your new direction and/or dismisses you? i even dare to say this is quite a common reason for bands to break up in the fist place, some people in the band can be quite happy with doing the same thing over and over, but some cannot stand being stucked in the same spot, no matter how good that spot it sooner or later it will get boring.

I really dont see how can your friends compare to the previous example, is sad that someone attacks others because they found sensitivity and creativity ( and its even more sad that the person attacking is an Opeth fan, the most dull and formulatic band of them all )

 

[Claire's Horror]

very same thing happens in every art. latin-american writers get shit for not exposing their country's folklore anymore, surrealist painters get shit for becoming minimal artists, metal musicians get shit for not being metal anymore...

but people better learn that change is more than essential; it is the base for maturity and progress in general.

 

[Lina]

Oh please, I loved the sensitivity and creativity in their earlier music. It's not like it was thrash metal. It was very melodic, like a simpler Opeth with violins. They broke up, not because they wanted a new direction, but because they didn't get along with each other. During that break, the two main guys stopped listening to metal -- he bought The Strokes and Pink, for christ's sake! They are no longer doing anything original. I've said repeatedly that I like simple music too, but usually the singer has to be good for that to work and theirs sucks. Ironically, even they're getting bored now and talking about starting all these side projects.

My rant is generally aimed at the trend of bands getting simpler and simpler as they go -- Metallica anyone? I just don't understand it. It's like they get lazy and uncreative.

 

[YourFuneral]

Originally posted by Lina
My rant is generally aimed at the trend of bands getting simpler and simpler as they go -- Metallica anyone? I just don't understand it. It's like they get lazy and uncreative.

Metallica? I think it's because they are in their 60's now or something... (I know they're not that old, but still...)

No, really, I think it's because they are pampered now... Up till the Black album, they were more or less underground... Black album and beyond, they were pampered and the music just got worse... (I personally think the Black album was their last good album, but others will say AJFA... Regardless, somewhere in there is when everything went to shit and money/popularity (which you could argue is the same thing) is the most recognizable culprit...)

I'm convinced that a band only releases good material when they still have to work a day job... (Not always the case, of course...)

 

[Claire's Horror]

in music, there is no such thing as evolution or sophistication, thusly neither retrocession, just change. get that straight.

 

[Lina]

that's bullshit, CH. you're saying no music is better than any other music. granted "better" is subjective, but there are some basic guidelines as to what is respectable in music. there's a difference in quality between opeth and the strokes. and before you accuse me of such, that's not me kissing opeth's ass -- you could interject any number of bands in its place.

 

[loudsilence]

do you know what it takes to say to the entire world " im fucking fed up with this, i need a change" ? you know how hard is to start over from the ground when everyone hates your new direction and/or dismisses you? i even dare to say this is quite a common reason for bands to break up in the fist place, some people in the band can be quite happy with doing the same thing over and over, but some cannot stand being stucked in the same spot, no matter how good that spot it sooner or later it will get boring.

Metallica anyone?

 

[Triste]

why is it that people have such a problem listening to different kinds of music (esp. in this case with alt. rock and pop....)? I don't think there's any problem with deciding to explore a different genre of music....I went through a phase for about 6 months where all I wanted to listen to was singer/songwriter or pop bands (like Jeff Buckley, Elliot Smith, Red House Painters, Kent)...I just wasn't in the mood to listen to metal or anything that was too heavy or dark for a while....I've gone through tons of phases like that since I started actively listening to music...maybe you guys are talking about friends that totally deny any music that they listened to in the past because it's not 'cool' in whatever new scene they are into....but to put down someone just for broadening their musical horizons is pretty close-minded...

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by Triste
why is it that people have such a problem listening to different kinds of music (esp. in this case with alt. rock and pop....)? I don't think there's any problem with deciding to explore a different genre of music....I went through a phase for about 6 months where all I wanted to listen to was singer/songwriter or pop bands (like Jeff Buckley, Elliot Smith, Red House Painters, Kent)...I just wasn't in the mood to listen to metal or anything that was too heavy or dark for a while....I've gone through tons of phases like that since I started actively listening to music...maybe you guys are talking about friends that totally deny any music that they listened to in the past because it's not 'cool' in whatever new scene they are into....but to put down someone just for broadening their musical horizons is pretty close-minded...

If that was directed toward me, you've completely missed my point. My taste in music is probably more broad than anyone else's on this board.

 

[YourFuneral]

Originally posted by Claire's Horror
in music, there is no such thing as evolution or sophistication, thusly neither retrocession, just change. get that straight.

If you are referring to individual musical works, then yes, what you stated is correct since a work of music doesn't possess a life of it's own, but if you are referring to those who compose music than you are sadly misinformed...

EDIT: Actually, what you said is just total wrong regardless of which way you meant it... A piece of music doesn't change either... (Unless you mean time changes, etc... lol)

Evolution - Moving from something simple to something complex (extreme layman's terms).. If this wasn't present in a composer, then no one would ever have to study music, practice, etc... You'd already be as good as you'll ever be...

Sophistication - A certain quote by Mikael comes to mind... Musicians definately can possess sophistication... (Not necessarily a good thing... Look the word up, if you don't really know what it means... Hell, look it up even if you THINK you know what it means...)

Retrocession - A musician who decides not to try expanding their musical knowledge... This may not, strickly speaking, be retrocession, but if you go from writing music that requires you to push your own personal limits as a musician/composer to writing music that requires little or no thought, that - to me - is retrocession...

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by YourFuneral
Retrocession - A musician who decides not to try expanding their musical knowledge... This may not, strickly speaking, be retrocession, but if you go from writing music that requires you to push your own personal limits as a musician/composer to writing music that requires little or no thought, that - to me - is retrocession...

Exactly.

 

[loudsilence]

Originally posted by Triste
why is it that people have such a problem listening to different kinds of music (esp. in this case with alt. rock and pop....)? I don't think there's any problem with deciding to explore a different genre of music....I went through a phase for about 6 months where all I wanted to listen to was singer/songwriter or pop bands (like Jeff Buckley, Elliot Smith, Red House Painters, Kent)...I just wasn't in the mood to listen to metal or anything that was too heavy or dark for a while....I've gone through tons of phases like that since I started actively listening to music...maybe you guys are talking about friends that totally deny any music that they listened to in the past because it's not 'cool' in whatever new scene they are into....but to put down someone just for broadening their musical horizons is pretty close-minded...

It's because you have a lot of these 'metal-heads' who go around saying that they only listen to the most heavy brutal metal and underground and that anything else is crap. This is just one example...but have any of you met people like this? They are so funny they think that anyone that signs with a record label has sold out.

 

[Triste]

NO Lina..it was not directed only toward you....it was directed toward people in general who have that mindset.....I'm just saying that a person can go back and forth between genres and not necessarily be being 'untr00' to their scene....

and that shoegazer nonsense is great!!!

 

[Claire's Horror]

Originally posted by Lina
that's bullshit, CH. you're saying no music is better than any other music. granted "better" is subjective, but there are some basic guidelines as to what is respectable in music. there's a difference in quality between opeth and the strokes. and before you accuse me of such, that's not me kissing opeth's ass -- you could interject any number of bands in its place.

though a band could be more spiritual, complex, or original than many, you have no right to dictate wether it is better than them or not.

you see, as an example, I like Sentenced much more than Low. Sentenced is simple, heavy, direct and non-profound music in itself, yet it evokes simplistic feelings in me that I just love to feel. Low, in change, is made of really subtle and creative layers of guitar melody and distortion with deep concepts, which makes it one of the most avant-garde bands in slowcore, and yet I just can't stand it, no matter how many tries I give to it.

you can say Mozart has more quality than Def Leppard as much as Shakespeare has over Stephen King, but thing is, I may enjoy King more than Shakespeare. why? because it brings me a nice, protein-lacking candy bar which right now I prefer over an A-class, healthy gourmet dinner.

same with all kind of music, be it Britney Spears for 12-year old girlies, fucking Slipknot for rebellious teenagers, Kenny Rogers for old cowboys, etc...

music is not a thing anyone can just embrace. most people just dig it for a moment of fun and cannot go beyond it. other people might indeed dig it for the sake of profoundity, but still won't be able to understand another kind of music (that can still be very creative and profound) which their nature doesn't stands for.

so, what's this so called superiority? for me nothing but mere bullshit.