Iconoclast spoiler thread

[metalxmetalx]

Oh, poor guy, so melodramatic and fickle. Yesterday you wrote:

Iconoclast cannot compare to the older albums, but given that PL was a piece of trash this one is actually pretty fun. I still think Russel's "new" vocals sound somehow immature. I just cannot relate to his voice and whatever emotion he is trying to convey.

It's not worth criticizing really, the damage is done.

All in all a neat album.

And today:

The lyrics are terrible, the whole album is awful..
Russ re-uses "shore to shore" and one line is "if all the world's a stage".
Sorry but I can't say nothing anymore the whole album is laughable!
The last line and chorus in When All is Lost.
"What went wrong, where have all my heroes gone, trade our future for a song we gave it all away."
What went wrong is Symphony X sold out, completely, and this entire song is like a confession.

You are laughable!

 

[Marwen]

V is my favorite album. MJR broke my heart when I read in an Interview (don't remember where) that V was one of his least favorites, probably after the first one... at least I hope so.

lol I never understood that either, and I disagree that Iconoclast is their best to date (as cool as Iconoclast is, V is still the best imo). But keep in mind that this album is fresh and pretty cool right now, and that albums like V and DWOT are very OLD, especially to the people who played them over and over and over again over the years. Personally if I were in their shoes, I would get sick and disgusted with my own old music and definitely say I prefer the new stuff, at least for now.

Oh, poor guy, so melodramatic and fickle. Yesterday you wrote:



And today:



You are laughable!

lol yep. Kids these days.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

What went wrong is Symphony X sold out, completely, and this entire song is like a confession.

I'm not quite ready to jump to that conclusion just yet, seeing as the album isn't even officially released. The only way we'll know for sure is when we hear what the next album will sound like (which could be in 2016 based on how this band operates). If it keeps the majority of these elements then I will be convinced.

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that the guys prefer playing this aggressive stuff over the more complex, progressive, "prettier" stuff. I swear that MJR once said in an interview that he prefers playing and writing the epic songs.

As for Russ, if he wants to sing this heavy and aggressively, can't he just do it in a side project? There's tons of average musicians who would love to play this balls-to-the-wall metal stuff with him singing over it, and I'm disappointed that he has to drag the rest of the band down by singing like he does in tracks like Heretic.

I respect Symphony X for trying something new and different with this album, I really do. However, I just don't think that this band, which used to draw so much influence from classical music, should continue down this synthetic, electronic-sounding road. I fear that if this album sells well (e.g. better than Paradise Lost) that they may incorporate many of these elements into their future albums, and I will not stand for that. I've said it before - this album should have been released as "X - Iconoclast," since there is almost no "Symphony" here.

Also, if this band does decide to release a live DVD sometime in the near future (with or without an orchestra), imagine what it'll sound like now. I guarantee you that they'll play half of this album and half of Paradise Lost, and probably just a few older tracks (the ones that would benefit the most from a symphony). Woohoo. Bastards of the Machine with an orchestra is really something that I want to hear. Awesome.

The lyrics are terrible, the whole album is awful.

From a lyrical standpoint I simply cannot disagree with you. There's a few exceptions, of course. The lyrics to When All Is Lost hit me hard, even if parts are cheesy. I'm also a big fan of the lyrics in Prometheus, but that's just because I have a soft spot for science and the creation of monsters that shouldn't be created in the first place. A few more songs are okay, but the majority of the lyrics are pure crap that sound like they were written by an angst-ridden teenager. This is probably the demographic that they're marketing this album toward, anyway, if all the swear words and "we are [insert something tuf guy here]" choruses are evidence enough. Just immature garbage. Who wrote this crap? Just Russ and Romeo again? I miss when the other guys used to help out with the lyrics. Rullo and P were all over V from a lyrical standpoint, and I recall Lepond writing something in The Odyssey (song).

I'm going to write a detailed song-by-song review of Iconoclast sometime later this week, and I'll be sure to have a full list of all the lyrical (and to a lesser extent musical) garbage that I find. But don't worry; I'll point out the positive stuff, too.

Also, switching gears here, but this album has been leaked for a few days now and I still can't find the entire album tabbed out for all instruments! What's the problem, people?! ;D

 

[Sep3]

Why would they make another Iconoclast? This one was supposed to contain lots of "mechanical" sounds, and elements from the previous albums, so I don't see why anyone should be surprised. Haters gonna hate. Next album will most certainly be very different again.

This post/opinion I would order under complete shit.

You can say that again. Kinda weird how you were so vigorously defending this guy earlier. I see through these kind of people immediately.

 

[iceandfire84]

I for one am appreciative all all of the many styles of this band. Certainly their sound began to alter beginning with the Odyssey but that doesn't mean they "sold out" by any means. They are simply playing what it is they enjoy and I will continue to enjoy it along with them for as long as I can.

Someone said this at some point earlier on but I agree that if I want to hear the "prettier" side of this band, I just put on an older cd and enjoy. I can't think of another modern band (in my opinion) that has a greater catalog of music and we are LUCKY that we've all had the opportunity to experience what they have given us.

I usually just read posts on here and rarely comment but something does bother me. Everyone has the right to disagree with direction/lyrics/etc. and the type of music that's appealing to one person isn't appealing to everyone. But if you've posted your thoughts about the new album once all ready and want to continue to lambast the band you should probably just stop writing on the forum and write in your diary about it.

 

[AsoTamaki]

As for Russ, if he wants to sing this heavy and aggressively, can't he just do it in a side project? There's tons of average musicians who would love to play this balls-to-the-wall metal stuff with him singing over it, and I'm disappointed that he has to drag the rest of the band down by singing like he does in tracks like Heretic.

Agreed. His does the aggressive vocals quite well, but it's just too much. I can't understand why it needs to be this full-throttle, over-top-style at all times. It just leaves everything devoid of any emotion. I can't count the number of times I wanted to scream "CALM DOWN, RUSSELL" during the course of the album.

The lyrics are terrible, the whole album is awful..
Russ re-uses "shore to shore"

Agreed. Although there were strong points, as a whole, I was disappointed with Iconoclast on first listen. So when Reign in Madness hit, I was blown away by how good the verse section was. Finally something fresh. Still had a heavy riff behind it, but also prominent keys and Russ was actually singing a unique vocal melody. I'd begun to think these things only possible in ballads. Then, that "shore to shore" part came and I just felt sick.

In the past, SX albums have always gotten more enjoyable through repeated listens. There'd always be intricate parts that I wouldn't fully "get" immediately or something. On this album, the songs have indeed gotten a little more enjoyable compared to my first listen. However, it seems to be only because I tell myself "okay, this part doesn't sound that bad."

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

I usually just read posts on here and rarely comment but something does bother me. Everyone has the right to disagree with direction/lyrics/etc. and the type of music that's appealing to one person isn't appealing to everyone. But if you've posted your thoughts about the new album once all ready and want to continue to lambast the band you should probably just stop writing on the forum and write in your diary about it.

Thoughts change with repeated listens. I couldn't stand Prometheus until I listened closer to the lyrics and to the groove, and now I enjoy it. I liked Bastards on the first listen but now I can't stand it (apart from the verses).

I also have no room to write about Symphony X in my diary because it's filled with so many girly thoughts.

 

[Kenneth R.]

where have all my heroes gone, .

cowboys?

 

[Postulate]

What went wrong is Symphony X sold out, completely, and this entire song is like a confession.

I don't think they sold out or anything like that. It's just...not good.

 

[Yeffooner]

8 Listens now... The whole album is great... Russ spoiled it all with those lyrics though.... Probably be one of my favorite Symphony X albums now if it weren't for (STRIKE WITH POWER! KILL THEM ALL FROM SHORE TO SHORE!)... What a big FUCK YOU to the fans...

cowboys?

You read my mind.

 

[metalxmetalx]

I usually just read posts on here and rarely comment but something does bother me. Everyone has the right to disagree with direction/lyrics/etc. and the type of music that's appealing to one person isn't appealing to everyone. But if you've posted your thoughts about the new album once all ready and want to continue to lambast the band you should probably just stop writing on the forum and write in your diary about it.

You said it! These blokes keep repeating the same things over and over again because they're not certain about what they really think!

 

[Ramtieger]

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that the guys prefer playing this aggressive stuff over the more complex, progressive, "prettier" stuff. I swear that MJR once said in an interview that he prefers playing and writing the epic songs.

Yeah, I've heard him say that in an interview, too. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks a little more in-depth about that whole thing, and how he seems to have sort of changed his mind. He's talked about it a few times mentioning the focus and the tightness of the compositions being more to his liking now than what he thinks of the earlier stuff, but there's not a lot of interviewers that tend to talk about those things unfortunately. Though he's said that his current favorite song on the new album is the title track, it doesn't have anything like the dynamics and overall variation compared to his previous work. But if someone threw that question in there and pressed him too hard, they might get punched in the face, so who knows...

 

[Marwen]

You can say that again. Kinda weird how you were so vigorously defending this guy earlier. I see through these kind of people immediately.

Are you seriously this buttfrustrated or do you just feel like arguing with me?

Either way, welcome to my ignore list.

cowboys?

Did they say who wrote the lyrics? If it IS Russel, he should probably stop and let the Mikes do it. I disagree with the assertion that the lyrics RUINED the album though.

I don't think they sold out or anything like that. It's just...not good.

...to you.

I'm not quite ready to jump to that conclusion just yet, seeing as the album isn't even officially released. The only way we'll know for sure is when we hear what the next album will sound like (which could be in 2016 based on how this band operates). If it keeps the majority of these elements then I will be convinced.

This is not wishful thinking but my actual objective guess: I'm guessing the next one will be different. The last two records are different but have something in common: being dark/heavy/riff-driven. I think they'll move a bit away from that now (Russ did say "we know what NOT to do" when referring to the next record) and move toward some more dynamic and progressive stuff, but still new and of course still metal. They said it over and over again, "we're a metal band", "we're metal guys", and they've always been (so if it's some progressive rock'ish stuff that you expect, forget it). They've always made heavy/metal songs, it's just that it didn't feel that way or show up as much due to the thinner tones used and less compressed production. But even so, it seems to me (based on their interviews these recent years) that they feel they didn't quite get the chance to really express their raw metal style/influences in the old albums and so they wanted to do it now, hence PL and Iconocalst.

Back to the next record. I think Russ mentioned something in an interview (I forgot which one) about Romeo possibly doing this odyssey-long track with some exotic ideas or something? That already sounds very exciting. Thinking of that, imagine Symphony X doing a theme similar to, say, Assassin's Creed/Prince of Persia theme.

 

[Weston]

The album makes me think of that recent live online interview with the band.

When asked about what music the band liked or has been listening to Russ answered that he's really into Protest The Hero.

Then each member got to say which SymX album was their favorite. When Lepond answered "V" Russ swings to him and says "WHAT ??!" and Lepond is like "it's good man".

Detective Clarence Beauregard, as always, thank you for taking my posts seriously. I also like the theme in the song Prometheus.

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

The album makes me think of that recent live online interview with the band.

When asked about what music the band liked or has been listening to Russ answered that he's really into Protest The Hero.

Then each member got to say which SymX album was their favorite. When Lepond answered "V" Russ swings to him and says "WHAT ??!" and Lepond is like "it's good man".

I remember watching that interview - the one where Pinnella gets all pissed off about genres and labeling, right? Anyway, I'm glad Lepond said that about V. I'm kind of shocked, though, since Lepond was like a straight-up metal guy before he joined the band and V is probably the band's most progressive record. What did Rullo and P say their favorite albums were? I know Rullo wrote like over half the lyrics for V...

Detective Clarence Beauregard, as always, thank you for taking my posts seriously. I also like the theme in the song Prometheus.

No problem, man. I know you're frustrated with this new album, and I am too. This band just isn't what it used to be - most of the elements that made me a fan of them have gone by the wayside now. There's several songs on the album that are still growing on me, but for the most part it just seems so unimpressive when compared to past releases (even Paradise Lost).

I just ignore the people who complain about us talking about the record (be it negative or positive), since that is what this forum is for - talking about Symphony X! I'm glad people are discussing this, and I'm also glad to see an influx of new members over the last few days.

 

[Jonin]

You guys are killing me. Come on next week! Amazon ship my cd!!!

 

[Xtopher]

3 excellent songs, 9 fillers.

 

[sweepking]

All of you whiners just need to embrace your inner boy band desires and go listen to some N'Sync or something. Good grief. Symphony X comes out with an incredibly intense album with some of their most technically adept playing to date, and you people cry for V?! V was great, but I will take the guitar playing on Iconoclast any day over it. And yes, the guitar playing is the biggest reason I listen to Symphony X. This cd does not fail in the other areas either...I hear more drum solos and keyboard parts on this than on PL. V had a little too much wah for my taste, but it is still a great cd that showed one side of the band. They have decided to move on from that sound. If you don't like it, don't listen to the band anymore as some of you have threatened. I honestly don't think they would care; they are playing the music they want to play. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I would hate for a possible buyer of this cd who might have heard End of the Innocence or Dehumanized to come on this board and see all of the negative nonsense being spewed in this thread.

 

[RuRoRul]

Honestly When All Is Lost is one of the best Symphony X tracks there have been as far as I'm concerned - that alone makes the album worthwhile since nearly all their albums only have one or two tracks that are among their best. Get rid of every track from DWOT apart from the title track and The Accolade (maybe Candlelight Fantasia) and I wouldn't be too bothered.

For the rest of the Iconoclast songs (as in taking WAIL (does that abbrevation work? testing it now ) Iconoclast, Reign In Madness and maybe Children Of A Faceless God out of the equation) I can appreciate them for what they are - standard, fairly short, fully heavy Symphony X tunes, most of which I'd still probably favour over The Witching Hour.

I'll concede a lack of variety on the album, too little of Russel Allen's clean voice, riffs or sounds that are a bit too familiar in places (even though no one can seem to agree what previous songs they actually sound like) and cheesy lyrics. But the first two are just aspects of the album - they might be negative aspects, but is it really worth completely dismissing the album over them? I don't really think so - as I said, I can still enjoy Bastards Of The Machine even though I would have preferred an Accolade. Refusing to listen to it for what it is seems pointless And the latter two have pretty much always been present in Symphony X - can anyone really listen to The Accolade and say that cheesy lyrics completely ruin a song?

But basically I don't know why anyone is surprised with what the album is, or the reaction to it. It was always going to be exactly like this and it couldn't have gone any other way. It's depressing sometimes watching band members be enthusiastic about their work, knowing the response it's going to get when they let people hear it.

Personally I hope that this album just completely drives away those who hated Paradise Lost. Let's face it, it's almost a decade now since the last "listenable" album. Time to move on and accept that you're never going to like a new Symphony X album. Hell, if DWOT had been released today I'd probably be reading about how the album was full of heavy, rubbish tunes except for The Accolade, which was ruined by it's lyrics, the title track, which was an "ok" track that was ruined by being bloated, and Candlelight Fantasia, that was a weak closer compared to the title track and ruined by being boring.

I know people are just discussing the album and saying negative opinions when they have them, and I'm really glad to hear fans of the band posting criticisms, but honestly it just gets a bit tiring when all people have to say is negative stuff and it just becomes people who actually aren't fans of the band. Where is the board for people who actually like the band, if the board for the band is only for people who dislike the band but like "what they used to be"?

 

[Yeffooner]

^^^ You people just seem to be completely oblivious to the writing on this album... You must not be native English speakers... In which case I ENVY YOU.... The Guitars, Drums, Vocals, Bass and Keys all great and executed flawlessly... The Vocal work is still amazing compared to most singers today... The lyrics are just plain horrible....... THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THIS ALBUM IS LYRICS.... I will stress this again.. THE ONLY ARGUABLE ISSUE WITH THIS ALBUM IS THE LYRICS.... If you have any other problems with it, that's personal preference, but if you can sit there and listen to some of the lyrics in Reign in Madness, Bastards of the Machine, Electric Messiah, END OF INNOCENCE, When all is lost etc and tell me that some of what he says is not just absolutely awful then you are either brain dead or just a stubborn fanboy-bastard...................................of the machine...