If Mort Divine ruled the world

[HamburgerBoy]

Any figures on the correlation between high school and undergraduate success? I'm sure it exists but there are a lot of things that have to be considered. For example, a 4.0 from a top magnet high school is not worth the same as a 4.0 from an inner city school where many students graduate only borderline-literate. A quick Google is telling me that at least one study finds that the ACT scores of dropouts and graduates are highly similar. High school and college aren't that similar and many different factors are at play that may make a person excel at one and be shit at another.

 

[Dak]

Any figures on the correlation between high school and undergraduate success? I'm sure it exists but there are a lot of things that have to be considered. For example, a 4.0 from a top magnet high school is not worth the same as a 4.0 from an inner city school where many students graduate only borderline-literate. A quick Google is telling me that at least one study finds that the ACT scores of dropouts and graduates are highly similar. High school and college aren't that similar and many different factors are at play that may make a person excel at one and be shit at another.

ACT scores of HS dropouts/grads or college? Obviously you wouldn't use only that score, which is representative of some academic competency, but the GPA reflects the ability to consistently attend/put forth effort (although probably less and less with each passing year due to grade inflation). Sure, the extra structure from home life, existing peer groups, and mandatory attendance makes success in high school easier. Which is a further argument for assuming that if there's any change from HS to uni, it's going to be negative. Obviously tHeRe's ALwaYs ExcEPtioNS, but we don't make broad policy based on outliers. Where it makes sense to consider factors outside GPA/score history is non-traditional students, because the experiences had between 18-whenever they return to school render the metric I linked of much less usefulness.

 

[Dak]

http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

Is that screeching I hear in the distance?

 

[Dak]

Wow, "the internet is losing its mind" about the trans ban being reinstated. Unfortunately I don't expect it to last. Joining the military isn't a civil right, and I have yet to see a proponent argument that understands this, and the comparisons to minorities serving or gays serving are completely disingenuous.

 

[rms]

oining the military isn't a civil right

does have that weird middle ground of not being a civil right but a public organization. I agree on the cost aspect and the fact that trans people likely are getting rather shit treatment, if they are combat arms, from their battle buddies. but banning all I am against too =/

 

[Dak]

does have that weird middle ground of not being a civil right but a public organization. I agree on the cost aspect and the fact that trans people likely are getting rather shit treatment, if they are combat arms, from their battle buddies. but banning all I am against too =/

The military already excludes (and medseps people) for a laundry list of reasons - chief among them medical issues requiring expensive treatment and/or ongoing maintenance. Why should transpersons get preferential/special treatment?

 

[rms]

if a trans person can pass a mental eval during entry I see no reason why they should be barred from joining

 

[Dak]

if a trans person can pass a mental eval during entry I see no reason why they should be barred from joining

Are they going to forego any medical treatments related to their transness? If so, that would answer my special treatment argument. However, one would then need to monitor, for some time, the performance effects of being trans while not having access to hormone therapy, etc. Another problem, which wasn't initially in mind but is related to another issue I have with the military, is the problem of differing physical fitness requirements for males and females. M2F trans are getting double preferential treatment if they both get medical treatment AND access to easier fitness standards - which increases chances for promotion (this differential fitness standard is an issue I've had with the military now for over a decade).

 

[rms]

Are they going to forego any medical treatments related to their transness?

I don't get mad at trans people for this, I get mad at this being a thing in the first place. Chicks getting boob jobs and other silly cosmetic things should not be publicly funded. Goofy ass ugly women with fake tits we all paid for in the service is ridiculous.

the performance effects of being trans while not having access to hormone therapy, etc

I think this is valid, but this wasn't what Trump emulated from whatever he may have heard from his generals. Saying there needs to be more studies about estrogen/test hormone treatment during basic/job training/officer training/other schools is a legitimate reason. Also, the effects these treatments have, if they are allowed during these periods, have in these super stressful environments.

is the problem of differing physical fitness requirements for males and females.

yeah, but from the outside looking in it seems to be shifting towards a more neutral test. But agreed, physical standards should be enforced by MOS, not gender.

And with the articles i've read about how a higher % of recruits, per year, are not physically fit to join is a problem. Hard to raise standards when the populace is already so lacking.

p.s. you still thinking of going back in? not sure im getting in to border patrol, might just try and comission and coast to 20+ years.

 

[Dak]

I don't get mad at trans people for this, I get mad at this being a thing in the first place. Chicks getting boob jobs and other silly cosmetic things should not be publicly funded. Goofy ass ugly women with fake tits we all paid for in the service is ridiculous.

I agree with you on this, but one poor policy shouldn't excuse another.

I think this is valid, but this wasn't what Trump emulated from whatever he may have heard from his generals. Saying there needs to be more studies about estrogen/test hormone treatment during basic/job training/officer training/other schools is a legitimate reason. Also, the effects these treatments have, if they are allowed during these periods, have in these super stressful environments.

yeah, but from the outside looking in it seems to be shifting towards a more neutral test. But agreed, physical standards should be enforced by MOS, not gender.

And with the articles i've read about how a higher % of recruits, per year, are not physically fit to join is a problem. Hard to raise standards when the populace is already so lacking.

I don't believe in differing standards per MOS outside of special forces (and I think the standards should be higher). Being fit is valuable no matter if you are in the infantry or filing papers.

p.s. you still thinking of going back in?

Yes, commissioning.

 

[rms]

I don't believe in differing standards per MOS outside of special forces (and I think the standards should be higher). Being fit is valuable no matter if you are in the infantry or filing papers.

fit yes, but fitness has different standards for certain jobs. Light units vs. heavy units require different fitness standards, for instance.


late edit

Yes, commissioning.

word, let's go together and be best friends forever


and this "cannot criticize the administration" -- fucking doofus

https://twitter.com/spookperson/status/890251331520286720

oh wow, more.

https://twitter.com/UncleChaps/status/890210593231208448

https://twitter.com/RenoMcGill/status/890252417190682628

 

[Dak]

"I am in no way stronger than most women". One wonders what sort of women he has been around to give him this misperception. There are many "average" persons in the military. The issue is that what constitutes "average" in the military is increasingly exceptional compared to the general population, and both tweeters ignore the fact that men do not have to be "strong" to be stronger than women on average. But what the fuck does that have to do with the trans ban?

 

[CiG]

If there is another draft, inb4 the trans population suddenly increases in America.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

ACT scores of HS dropouts/grads or college? Obviously you wouldn't use only that score, which is representative of some academic competency, but the GPA reflects the ability to consistently attend/put forth effort (although probably less and less with each passing year due to grade inflation). Sure, the extra structure from home life, existing peer groups, and mandatory attendance makes success in high school easier. Which is a further argument for assuming that if there's any change from HS to uni, it's going to be negative. Obviously tHeRe's ALwaYs ExcEPtioNS, but we don't make broad policy based on outliers. Where it makes sense to consider factors outside GPA/score history is non-traditional students, because the experiences had between 18-whenever they return to school render the metric I linked of much less usefulness.

Mastering an instrument or a programming language or other things at a young age also indicates ability to put forth effort. I'd argue potentially more since academics are always forced while extracurriculars are at least sometimes voluntary. Weird that you'd make an exception for non-traditional students just because of a few year gap, while ignoring the extreme change inherent in the process of suddenly becoming a legal adult.

 

[Dak]

Mastering an instrument or a programming language or other things at a young age also indicates ability to put forth effort. I'd argue potentially more since academics are always forced while extracurriculars are at least sometimes voluntary. Weird that you'd make an exception for non-traditional students just because of a few year gap, while ignoring the extreme change inherent in the process of suddenly becoming a legal adult.

"Extreme change inherent in some wand waving at 18". Sorry, but I have to lol.

 

[rms]

https://twitter.com/becket/status/890237282447495168

better clarification on the trans policy from yesterday. Trump is really a fucking doofus

 

[Dak]

Read a good point today: If liberals hate the military and foreign wars so much (supposedly), why would they support transpersons joining? Shouldn't they be happy transwomen are protected from the Selective Service?

 

[CiG]

The military is a tool of the patriarchal, white supremacist, sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic imperialist American government - and I demand that trans people be allowed to join that.

 

[Baroque]

Read a good point today: If liberals hate the military and foreign wars so much (supposedly), why would they support transpersons joining? Shouldn't they be happy transwomen are protected from the Selective Service?

pretty much why the ban makes no sense.

if trump/supporters hate transpeople, why not let them die in the army? why give them a free ticket to safety and send everyone else off to fight

 

[CiG]

I think they're more just worried that the fuzziness of transgenderism will get other people killed or harmed in the military, in relation to combat readiness, group cohesion etc.