If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Einherjar86]

Why aren't the values transferable?

 

[Dak]

Why aren't the values transferable?

Did I say they weren't? But values drive behaviors (or in some cases don't, which is a different issue), and behaviors play a role in generating outcomes. Which, for these values, is living in the dirt and a culture of verbally abusing aka bullying those around you at a hint of productivity.

 

[Einherjar86]

That's a very deterministic perspective.

 

[Dak]

That's a very deterministic perspective.

That's a neat new way of saying "It's never really been tried before".

 

[no country for old wainds]

Many things, personal experience in things like athletics competitions that I used to do in elementary school. It certainly wasn't a sausage fest, plenty of competitive girls were involved albeit in different activities compared to the boys, generally speaking. I didn't see any discouragement on behalf of my gym teachers towards the ladies, they just seemed to prefer certain kinds of competitions.

I've noticed something and it has held true for me: women both do better in and gravitate towards cooperative team-based competition as opposed to men who seem to like solo competition or hierarchical team-based competition where you either lead or fall in line.

It also seems to be the case that the more gender egalitarian the society is, the more the biological differences between men and women exhibit themselves, much to the dismay of certain people it would seem who were hoping for more parity.

The degree to which people want women to be like men almost seems like an admission that women are inferior or something. Why is it just assumed that women should be doing as good as men in something like chess? What is this assumption actually based on?

i'd like to read some studies on the subject, i'm sure there are some. i don't think personal experience is a good enough source of evidence in answering a question so fundamental to so many of society's big questions as nature vs. nurture (as it applies to chess or anything else). where the latter's concerned, i would've thought pre-elementary school would be the most important timeframe for deciding these kinds of preferences and inclinations in any case? i mean, it's important not to go too far in the direction of denying the influence of nurture/societal conditioning etc on women just because we increasingly live in a society that's terrified by biology, although i understand the impulse.

for what it's worth, i've played chess at tournament level since i was 8 years old and i can say that the number of girls at junior level is significantly higher than the number of women at adult level. it's hard to know what that really signifies though.

 

[CiG]

Seems to me those so-called fundamental questions have already been answered by science but certain people don't like that explanation and instead prefer to search for other answers that they'll probably never find.

I don't know many people who would deny nurture/social conditioning either.

 

[CiG]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22594/woke-upenn-teacher-wont-call-white-males-amanda-prestigiacomo#

 

[Dak]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9450072

This just throws a wrench in everything

 

[The Ozzman]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9450072

This just throws a wrench in everything

SHIIIIIIIEEEEEEEETTTTT

 

[Dak]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/opinion/harvey-weinstein-lena-dunham-silence-.html

Female child molester complains about male sexual harrassment. Libs publish it. Male child molester deflects with gay coming out (sort of). Lib media applauds....until gays complain.

 

[CiG]

KEVIN Spacey’s brother has alleged he was raised by a Nazi father who littered his home with porn and raped his own son.

 

[Dak]

Not surprised if it's true.

 

[CiG]

 

[Einherjar86]

That's a neat new way of saying "It's never really been tried before".

That's not what I'm saying. Just commenting on your myopic interpretation of the article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/opinion/harvey-weinstein-lena-dunham-silence-.html

Female child molester complains about male sexual harrassment. Libs publish it. Male child molester deflects with gay coming out (sort of). Lib media applauds....until gays complain.

Man, you can't stop. It's kind of amusing to watch you fall victim to the same rhetorical tactics that you accuse the media of falling victim to. Either you haven't actually read about the contextual differences between Dunham and Spacey, or you don't care.

 

[Dak]

That's not what I'm saying. Just commenting on your myopic interpretation of the article.

Refusing to assume a post-scarcity future and assume away empirical outcomes and logical theories of economic may be myopic in the same sense that we keep fiction on science fiction until it's not. There are still no teleporters, and even if there were to be, it may not work how people want.

Man, you can't stop. It's kind of amusing to watch you fall victim to the same rhetorical tactics that you accuse the media of falling victim to. Either you haven't actually read about the contextual differences between Dunham and Spacey, or you don't care.

I'm not equivocating Dunham and Spacey. Dunham just has no standing to lecture anyone on ethics. The NYT couldn't find anyone more credible to lecture us? The headline alone just needs a tweak for Onion stats.

 

[Einherjar86]

Refusing to assume a post-scarcity future and assume away empirical outcomes and logical theories of economic may be myopic in the same sense that we keep fiction on science fiction until it's not. There are still no teleporters, and even if there were to be, it may not work how people want.

I don't understand the syntax of the emboldened clause.

But if I'm extrapolating, I'd say there's an assumption built into your response that the Guardian author's piece demands a post-scarcity future in order for egalitarian practices to work. I don't think that's the case at all. Maybe the author suggested this, I don't recall. But it's not a necessary factor in egalitarian institutions.

I'm not equivocating Dunham and Spacey. Dunham just has no standing to lecture anyone on ethics. The NYT couldn't find anyone more credible to lecture us? The headline alone just needs a tweak for Onion stats.

There are probably far more credible people, I agree. But you did call both Dunham and Spacey child molesters. That sounds like equating language.

 

[rms]

just because Lena was a youngin doesn't excuse her abhorrent behavior.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Wasn't what she did basically the equivalent of "playing doctor"?

 

[rms]

stupid reply

 

[Einherjar86]

She was seven or some shit. Excusable or not, it’s nonsensical to call her thirty-whatever year-old self a “child molester.” What Spacey is accused of doing is way different—this isn’t a double-standard.