If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

Actually, I think you're both smarter than this. But it's kinda cute when you jerk each other off.

There are 195 agreed-upon nations in the world, and I highly doubt you would voluntarily move to the overwhelming majority willingly, even if you could magically speak the language fluently and they paid you equivalent to what you could make in the US. If the US is a shithole nation, what are the exemplar nations the US could learn from?

 

[Einherjar86]

There are 195 agreed-upon nations in the world, and I highly doubt you would voluntarily move to the overwhelming majority willingly, even if you could magically speak the language fluently and they paid you equivalent to what you could make in the US. If the US is a shithole nation, what are the exemplar nations the US could learn from?

Again, you're smarter than this. Maybe you should act like it.

 

[Dak]

Again, you're smarter than this. Maybe you should act like it.

Non-sequitur (yeah I know, I led with it earlier). Wouldn't work in an adjudicated debate among educated adults but you are aware there's no adjudication here.

 

[CiG]

> Drag Queen Storytime for kids melts conservative snowflakes
> Sex offenders caught participating in Drag Queen Storytime for kids

Reality comes at you pretty quickly.

 

[Einherjar86]

Non-sequitur (yeah I know, I led with it earlier). Wouldn't work in an adjudicated debate among educated adults but you are aware there's no adjudication here.

I am aware. I suppose that means we can just drop it.

 

[Dak]

I am aware. I suppose that means we can just drop it.

We could. You could also provide a relative comparison for the US. But we both know you can't.

 

[Einherjar86]

A comparison to what?

You understand that I get the point you’re making about Trump’s comment, yes? I understand that the general gist is that the Squad are criticizing America, and Trump is saying if they don’t like it here then they can leave.

But he specifically said they can go back where they came from, and they didn’t come from anywhere. They’re Americans. Three of them were born here, and one came over when she was ten. Trump’s comment makes no fucking sense. I’m glad you and others are amused by it, but you’re being amused by utter nonsense.

 

[CiG]

I don't know shit about "the Squad" I just assumed Trump was referring to Ilhan Omar when he said what he said.

 

[CiG]

Googled Rashida Tlaib and holy loly she's cringe:

Later that day Tlaib attended a reception for the MoveOn campaign and spoke on stage. She ended the speech recounting a conversation she had with her son, him saying: "Look, mama, you won. Bullies don't win." Tlaib replied to him, she recounted, "Baby, they don't, because we're gonna go in there and impeach the motherfucker."

...and then her son stood up and clapped.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't know shit about "the Squad" I just assumed Trump was referring to Ilhan Omar when he said what he said.

He specifically addressed his comment at all four of them. He told American-born citizens to go back to the countries they came from.

So interesting to see "Progressive" Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.

Stupid bullshit.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Tlaib is the most insufferable of "The Squad". She's like your older alcoholic aunt who desperately wants to keep up with what's "in". She's basically the real life Muslim version of the Steve Buscemi meme. Ilhan reigns supreme.

 

[CiG]

Oh I know who Ayanna Pressley is from that recent Facebook cryptocurrency hearing but didn't know her name etc, she and AOC asked pretty good questions actually.

He specifically addressed his comment at all four of them. He told American-born citizens to go back to the countries they came from.

Okay well then I agree that's retarded and makes no sense lmao.

Edit: I also like how Trump's comment on "the Squad" contradicts his central campaign slogan.

 

[Dak]

A comparison to what?

You understand that I get the point you’re making about Trump’s comment, yes? I understand that the general gist is that the Squad are criticizing America, and Trump is saying if they don’t like it here then they can leave.

But he specifically said they can go back where they came from, and they didn’t come from anywhere. They’re Americans. Three of them were born here, and one came over when she was ten. Trump’s comment makes no fucking sense. I’m glad you and others are amused by it, but you’re being amused by utter nonsense.

I wish it was simply amusing. I'm pointing out the fact that at heart the "squad" and you yourself speak ot the US as a shithole. That game doesn't work as soon as we apply one of Sowell's Three Questions: "Compared to what?"

 

[Einherjar86]

I was merely quoting CIG's use of "shithole." It was more for rhetorical effect than it was for any kind of qualitative assessment or comparison with other countries.

And Sowell's question is the worst kind of distraction. The best place in the world isn't free from criticism simply because other options are worse. I hate the argument "Well, there's nothing better, but feel free to go somewhere else if you don't like it." It's a piss poor retort that belongs in no legitimate argument (which you appealed to earlier). It's pure performance and no substance.

 

[Dak]

I was merely quoting CIG's use of "shithole." It was more for rhetorical effect than it was for any kind of qualitative assessment or comparison with other countries.

And Sowell's question is the worst kind of distraction. The best place in the world isn't free from criticism simply because other options are worse. I hate the argument "Well, there's nothing better, but feel free to go somewhere else if you don't like it." It's a piss poor retort that belongs in no legitimate argument (which you appealed to earlier). It's pure performance and no substance.

How many times are we lectured that "The US is the only nation that does/doesn't X" (which is almost inevitably wrong from the outset), or lectured slightly less ignorantly that "The US is the only developed nation that does/doesn't do X"? Is this also pure performance or is it entering useful information into consideration (when the statement about X is actually true, which it usually isn't when one looks beneath the surface)?

At least the above are comparisons between actually existing options/examples, rather than comparing a real option with an imaginary option. It's little wonder that the US is always falling short of the moving target of Secular Heaven.

 

[Einherjar86]

It’s pure performance when it’s in the service of exceptionalist apologetics.

I’d rather have the US fall short of secular heaven for eternity than ever reach a point where I feel content with how the country operates. There is no perfect state or static model of the ideal; it will always be a process of development, for better or worse. Tools like Sowell take aim at criticism because “the US isn’t as bad as Somalia.” And you call that intellectualism.

 

[Dak]

It’s pure performance when it’s in the service of exceptionalist apologetics.

I’d rather have the US fall short of secular heaven for eternity than ever reach a point where I feel content with how the country operates. There is no perfect state or static model of the ideal; it will always be a process of development, for better or worse. Tools like Sowell take aim at criticism because “the US isn’t as bad as Somalia.” And you call that intellectualism.

No, intellectuals recognize tradeoffs and require evidence:

https://blog.acton.org/archives/83316-3-questions-to-counter-arguments-from-the-economic-left.html

The Constrained Vision — Sowell argues that the constrained vision relies heavily on belief that human nature is essentially unchanging and that man is naturally inherently self-interested, regardless of the best intentions. Those with a constrained vision prefer the systematic processes of the rule of law and experience of tradition. Compromise is essential because there are no ideal solutions, only trade-offs. Those with a constrained vision favor solid empirical evidence and time-tested structures and processes over intervention and personal experience. Ultimately, the constrained vision demands checks and balances and refuses to accept that all people could put aside their innate self-interest.
...........
"I’ve often said there are three questions that would destroy most of the arguments on the left.

The first is: ‘Compared to what?’

The second is: ‘At what cost?’

And the third is: ‘What hard evidence do you have?’

There's a cost associated with addressing anything being criticized. We do not live in world or a country with infinite resources. Some things at any given time have to be accepted as "good enough."

The infrastructure in the US is something that actually is in appallingly bad shape in both real and relative terms. But let's rename manhole covers and stuff. Talk about pure performance and lack of substance.

 

[Einherjar86]

No, intellectuals recognize tradeoffs and require evidence:

https://blog.acton.org/archives/83316-3-questions-to-counter-arguments-from-the-economic-left.html

There's a cost associated with addressing anything being criticized. We do not live in world or a country with infinite resources. Some things at any given time have to be accepted as "good enough."

The infrastructure in the US is something that actually is in appallingly bad shape in both real and relative terms. But let's rename manhole covers and stuff. Talk about pure performance and lack of substance.

Interesting example. And how much does it cost to rename manhole covers?

It's a strawman argument that "the left" doesn't recognize tradeoffs or ask for evidence. Sowell is unwilling to have the conversation his opponents want to have. That's his prerogative; but his three questions hardly "destroy" all leftist arguments.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Oh I know who Ayanna Pressley is from that recent Facebook cryptocurrency hearing but didn't know her name etc, she and AOC asked pretty good questions actually.

I live in Massachusetts and just barely know who she is. Seems more like a hanger-on, riding Cortez and Omar's coattails.

He gets you in your sleep but Freddy is woke AF.

 

[CiG]

Tools like Sowell take aim at criticism because “the US isn’t as bad as Somalia.” And you call that intellectualism

"Tools like Sowell" or "Tools like Sowell's"? Freudian slip or intentional jab? lmao.

Anyway the "compared to what" question is necessary to deal with the increasingly popular "all cultures are equal" mindset. It's a lie that the left tells itself, and it tells itself (and everybody else) this to the detriment of retards who then decide to bikeride through middle-eastern warzones or tell warm fuzzy feelz stories in Somalia and get murdered.

I live in Massachusetts and just barely know who she is. Seems more like a hanger-on, riding Cortez and Omar's coattails.

Could be the case, but Ilhan and AOC could have easily been dismissed as Bernie coattail riders before they gained infamy. I think this was a fine moment for Pressley even if I probably disagree with her on almost anything else: