If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
- Start date
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 15,042
- 4,723
- 113
At face value I don't see anything wrong with that article. Calling the cops over a non-crime observed in person is only a hair better than SWATing somebody online, and calling the cops over a falsely-perceived crime (e.g. the black guy that took a BB rifle out of a box in a Walmart) out of fear and ignorance of the law is only a bit better than that. If you're not sure whether a person is doing something bad or not, either confront them or ignore them, don't be a busybody and call the cops at any moment possible.
EDIT: Actually, I'd go further. I'd say that intentionally dialing a false police report which leads to the death of the falsely accused should be grounds for death. Using the police as your gun is both murder and an attack on society, and worse than just shooting somebody yourself. This should apply to false rape/abuse accusers and perjurers in criminal cases as well.
Last edited:
Dak
mentat
Maybe the guy needs to take note that white women have some deep-seated issues that really aren't racially limited. I've seen quite a few women wield the state because they can fucking get away with it. No morals.
In the Starbucks case, the men were asked to leave private property and didn't by employees. Then refused when the cops asked them to leave. I've been asked to leave places that I haven't bought anything at, and I've bought something to use a bathroom. I guess I should have staged a protest instead.
In the Starbucks case, the men were asked to leave private property and didn't by employees. Then refused when the cops asked them to leave. I've been asked to leave places that I haven't bought anything at, and I've bought something to use a bathroom. I guess I should have staged a protest instead.
Last edited:
Dak
mentat
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
Einherjar86
Active Member
There aren't alternative stories. There's one story:
Two black guys entered a Starbucks and one asked to use the bathroom. The manager said the bathroom is for paying customers only, so the two guys went and sat down to wait for someone else they were meeting (i.e. didn't try and use the bathroom). The manager then called the police because the two black guys didn't buy anything, despite the fact that white people go into Starbucks without buying stuff all the time. She didn't ask them to leave, as far as I know. She simply saw they didn't buy anything and called the police.
It was a stupid situation caused by a stupid manager.
Two black guys entered a Starbucks and one asked to use the bathroom. The manager said the bathroom is for paying customers only, so the two guys went and sat down to wait for someone else they were meeting (i.e. didn't try and use the bathroom). The manager then called the police because the two black guys didn't buy anything, despite the fact that white people go into Starbucks without buying stuff all the time. She didn't ask them to leave, as far as I know. She simply saw they didn't buy anything and called the police.
It was a stupid situation caused by a stupid manager.
Onder
Active Member
- Apr 10, 2006
- 11,389
- 2,029
- 113
Dak
mentat
Whether or not it was a good policy or one that was enforced equitably, the manager followed the policy of the store.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...911-no-longer-with-the-company-chairman-says/
"In this situation" = someone played the race card.
The men in question refused to leave when asked by both the employees and the police.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/14/us/philadelphia-police-starbucks-arrests/index.html
You know what I do when I'm told the policy is to buy something? I buy it. Hell, I don't even have to be asked. I buy a drink or something. I've been asked to buy something or leave at an independent coffee shop despite all my white privilege and the fact that other people in my group were ordering. Bad business practice (the place did eventually go out of business) but not necessarily a racial issue. But certainly if the police ask that I leave a place I comply. This kerfluffle isn't as bad as the defense of Michael Brown but it's in that direction.
Conversely, anecdotally I know of a black guy who works as a conatruction contractor for home renovations, who has had the cops called on him when he has shown up early for job appointments. Now there is bias and the guy is trying to work, not a violent criminal or a couple of recalcitrant mooches.
rms
Active Member
Dak
mentat
There's a difference between walking around asking people if they have bought anything, and knowing that two people specifically declined after being informed of the rules - rules they indirectly solicited - yet wouldn't leave - even after the police showed up. The manager might be a bigot, we don't know. We don't know of the times before where people either A. Bought something or B. Left or C. Didn't go in with no intent to buy. We have this one instance of policy enforcement and recalcitrance the media, Starbucks, and whoever else want to fall on a sword over.
rms
Active Member
But do you really think that manager is consistent with that policy? I have doubts, especially without race involved
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
But if she's not consistent it begs the question why in this case was she? Which is kind of the point of the out cry
Dak
mentat
How do we know she isn't consistent? How many non-blacks have asked to use the bathroom, been informed of the policy, said "no thanks", and then sat back down at a table? Then been asked to leave at the penalty of having the cops called, and still stayed? This is a classic example of requirement to prove a negative. Guilty until proven innocent.
rms
Active Member
I think it's more likely she's inconsistent than the alternative, and surprised you think that's more of a stretch than believing she's some pillar of Starbucks ethics.
This is the only "interesting" aspect to this outside of no one asking why these dudes didn't leave once the Cops asked
This is the only "interesting" aspect to this outside of no one asking why these dudes didn't leave once the Cops asked
Einherjar86
Active Member
If that manager paid the minimal amount of attention necessary to manage a Starbucks, she would know that people sit down all the time without buying anything. What's to keep her from approaching said people and informing them of the store's policy?
These guys weren't mooching. They weren't doing anything. They were asked to leave, yes; but if racial bias had no role in this scenario, then they shouldn't have been. Furthermore, they say they were meeting a third person there to discuss something to do with real estate. It sounds as though it may have been a business meeting, or a meeting about potential living arrangements. I wouldn't want to be forced to leave either in that situation (and I wouldn't have been, of course). People often meet at coffee houses for interviews and other business matters without buying anything. I'm not seeing how this situation was any different.
These guys weren't mooching. They weren't doing anything. They were asked to leave, yes; but if racial bias had no role in this scenario, then they shouldn't have been. Furthermore, they say they were meeting a third person there to discuss something to do with real estate. It sounds as though it may have been a business meeting, or a meeting about potential living arrangements. I wouldn't want to be forced to leave either in that situation (and I wouldn't have been, of course). People often meet at coffee houses for interviews and other business matters without buying anything. I'm not seeing how this situation was any different.
Dak
mentat
How do we know she hadn't? Because ostensibly the police hadn't been called before? Maybe when asked previously people either paid or left. That's what I would do. Not sit there like an entitled child.
Edit: Of course it's certainly possible the woman was racially biased in enforcing the policy. Not in asking the black men to pay or leave, but in not asking customers of other races to pay or leave.
Sure, many people in the US often act like entitled children. Using a commercial establishment's facilities without some patronage is mooching. I know it's Starbucks, but a cup of coffee really isn't that expensive for a one time meeting.
Last edited:
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 15,042
- 4,723
- 113
Is it established now that she warned them that she'd call the police if they didn't leave, after having already asked them to buy something? I thought the drama was that the dudes showed up, she asked them to buy something or leave, they said "We'll be meeting someone in a few minutes", and she walked off and immediately called the police without informing them. If she did warn them then yeah they have no excuse.
Einherjar86
Active Member
You can't separate those two things and make following policy the bottom line with no ulterior motivations. That's not how bias works.
Why would she enforce the policy for two black men and not for white people? Maybe she just dislikes them so much that she uses the policy as a means to stage her prejudice--in which case, that's bias in asking them to leave. Or maybe she unconsciously feels that two white people sitting down without buying anything aren't likely to be dangerous; but two black people sitting down without buying anything might be planning some kind of violence--in which case, again, that's bias in asking them to leave.
The bias enters into play when someone acts differently than they normally would. Just because something is policy doesn't mean it reflects some baseline of standard behavior. For example, it's policy to drive under the speed limit (that's why it's a "limit"), but people regularly drive five to ten miles-per-hour over it and don't get pulled over.
Similar threads
