IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

[Jester Slave]

Ah yes. Anders is a great frontman. Is just that nobody in the metal music business has noticed that and he doesn't appear in lists in which even someone as boring as Mikael Akerfeldt appears.

I guess that, at least, he is in the list of the 100 best Swedish metal frontmen ever.

He doesn't have to be on any list to be validated. What makes an objectively good frontman, what values do they have to met to be evaluated in a top X list? Dave Grohl seems like a nice fella. Is that a plus? He played with a broken leg. Is that a plus? He gained permanent fame with Nirvana. Is that a plus?

I don't think Anders does anything which would generate articles about him. He's not like Lindemann, who is going to cum spray you while singing about his dick and your pussy. He won't do pretend fight on stage like Manson. He's just harmonizing with the crowd, and creates a friendly environment, helps you come out of your shell. It's important, especially if you haven't drank enough. He's "just" good.

I think a bad frontman is someone who has no charisma, and just sits behind the microphone all set long, says some thank yous, tells you how awesome this crowd is, and just leaves. It doesn't necessarily mean the show is bad, some very talented musicians have absolutely 0 charisma, and that is fine. But that is what I would call a bad frontman on a stage. There are tonnes of funny and lighthearted clips with Anders, like him inviting up people on the stage. I think that's pretty cool.

Also, their In My Room tour gets very little credit. I think it is a neat, and unique idea.

 

[eochaid]

https://www.loudersound.com/features/every-in-flames-album-ranked-from-worst-to-best

Oh boy this has some spicy hot takes in it. At least they got the bottom two right

ASOP above Clayman. LOL.

 

[eochaid]

He doesn't have to be on any list to be validated. What makes an objectively good frontman, what values do they have to met to be evaluated in a top X list? Dave Grohl seems like a nice fella. Is that a plus? He played with a broken leg. Is that a plus? He gained permanent fame with Nirvana. Is that a plus?

I don't think Anders does anything which would generate articles about him. He's not like Lindemann, who is going to cum spray you while singing about his dick and your pussy. He won't do pretend fight on stage like Manson. He's just harmonizing with the crowd, and creates a friendly environment, helps you come out of your shell. It's important, especially if you haven't drank enough. He's "just" good.

I think a bad frontman is someone who has no charisma, and just sits behind the microphone all set long, says some thank yous, tells you how awesome this crowd is, and just leaves. It doesn't necessarily mean the show is bad, some very talented musicians have absolutely 0 charisma, and that is fine. But that is what I would call a bad frontman on a stage. There are tonnes of funny and lighthearted clips with Anders, like him inviting up people on the stage. I think that's pretty cool.

Also, their In My Room tour gets very little credit. I think it is a neat, and unique idea.

Vocal skills. Interaction with the crowd. General movements. He's just average.

A good frontman is not someone of whom someone says "the song was good but Anders fucked it at the end".

And a good frontman is not just someone who makes you feel... friendly or whatever. This is about music. Not some support group.

And why on earth would someone want to be drunken at a show? If you're going to throw 40€ to waste better give them to me.

 

[DE4life]

https://www.loudersound.com/features/every-in-flames-album-ranked-from-worst-to-best

Oh boy this has some spicy hot shits in it. At least they got the bottom two right

this is one of the most bizarre lists I've ever seen. Colony, Whoracle and TJR as top three... then Clayman 7th? Below ASOP and STYE? I also have to comment on how wrong some of this is.

12. Siren Charms (2014)
It’s a toothless continuation of its predecessor Sounds Of A Playground Fading, which in itself was the less interesting follow-up to A Sense Of Purpose.

SC isn't a continuation of SOAPF in any way. Totally different albums. As for SOAPF being "less interesting" than ASOP... get fucked.

9. Sounds Of A Playground Fading (2011)
n the end, it’s not as engaging as A Sense Of Purpose, but its gothic groove metal makes it a decent offering. And “decent”, sadly, is the best In Flames would ever be in the 2010s.

I'm going to disagree with "not as engaging as A Sense of Purpose", but I'm not even convinced this guy listened to the right album. I don't know what "gothic groove metal" is but I'm pretty sure SOAPF isn't it. Try again.

8. Reroute To Remain (2002)This gave us songs like the Korn-esque System

System "Korn-esque" ? Really? I've never heard a Korn song that sounds remotely like System.

7. Clayman (2000)
synth playing was included for the first time on an In Flames album and Anders Fridén’s clean singing became a regular feature.

Two major fails here. There were plenty of keys on Colony for a start, and Anders doesn't sing at all on Clayman, he just talks and mumbles. Reroute was the first album Anders properly sung on. For the record there were also a number of clean vocals on Colony - Ordinary Story, Insipid 2000, Coerced Coexistence? And those were arguably more melodic cleans than were featured on Clayman.

Also, Clayman 7th... ha, ha. Very funny.

6. A Sense Of Purpose (2008)
As the first album with no death metal hallmarks whatsoever, A Sense Of Purpose has a rough reputation; for many, it marks the start of In Flames’ “sell-out” era. Yet, despite paving the way for stinkers like Battles, …Purpose is an eclectic treat. Disconnected’s metalcore picks up where Come Clarity left off, Delights And Angers has a great hard/soft dynamic and Alias is among In Flames’ best songs ever. Period.

"First album with no death metal hallmarks whatsoever" ... yeah, because Reroute and STYE were death metal classics. Also "Alias is among In Flames' best songs ever. Period." yeah, if you're 12.

5. Soundtrack To Your Escape (2004)
If Reroute To Remain was the scalpel that split the In Flames fanbase in half, then Soundtrack To Your Escape is the stitches that temporarily reunited them. While not ditching the nu metal and electronic flourishes of its predecessor, it certainly de-emphasised them in favour of a more consistent flow.

"Soundtrack To Your Escape is the stitches that temporarily reunited them" - is this guy on crack or does he come from an alternate timeline where IF had a very different fanbase? STYE was more divisive than R2R, not less. Nobody who was around when this came out would say that this in any way "reunited" the divided fanbase. As for de-emphasising the "nu-metal and electric flourishes of its predecessor" - again, completely wrong. If anything it amped them up. I think he's mistaken STYE for Come Clarity as this description would make much more sense if so.

3. The Jester Race (1996)
The band’s melodic guitars gel perfectly with the high-octane performance of new drummer Björn Gelotte

If anything the drumming is the weak point of TJR. "High octane"? Not really. It's fine but nothing special.

2. Whoracle (1997)
Whoracle is In Flames’ heaviest album, venturing far closer to all-out death metal than anything else in their back-catalogue.

No. Lunar Strain is by far the closest IF have ever come to "death metal".

Overall review grade 2/10 - complete rewrite and new ears required.

 

[DE4life]

Also IF just promoted FFDP on facebook... it hasn't gone down well

 

[ThePhobiac]

Atoma is Projector but without the genius.

"But Construct was Proje--" No, Construct was Haven with higher highs and lower lows. Talk to my secretary.

Atoma's still a damn great album and is easily my favorite of theirs from the '10s. Curious to hear the new stuff.

 

[The Grayfox]

Also IF just promoted FFDP on facebook... it hasn't gone down well

Sweet. I can't wait for that In Flames featuring Ivan Moody track. It's gonna be soooo good. /s

 

[Jester Slave]

@DE4life SC is totally a continuation of SOAPF. Same sound, different, more mellow and slower approach. I should know, because that shitty fucking rock sound is persistent on both records, and they are like the least IF albums out there. Okay, there's also Battles, but I'm trying to have my cognitive dissonance up and going, and pretend that Battles was something more.

Yeah, System is absolutely not Korn-like. Korn elements would be his raspy singing. Like, I could totally see JD sing The Quiet Place with a slightly different and slower tune.

Vocal skills. Interaction with the crowd. General movements. He's just average.

A good frontman is not someone of whom someone says "the song was good but Anders fucked it at the end".

And a good frontman is not just someone who makes you feel... friendly or whatever. This is about music. Not some support group.

And why on earth would someone want to be drunken at a show? If you're going to throw 40€ to waste better give them to me.

I wouldn't count vocals. That's not what we are talking about.

And who wouldn't want to drink?! It's a great way to relax, and let go of being self-conscious. Not everyone is a party animal by nature.

 

[drawntoblack]

Anders as a frontman... Oh boy.

He was shit in the 90s in that regard. Shy and awkard.
He was pretty good and really entertaining between Clayman and Come Clarity tour cycles. That's when he (and the band for that matter) had the best image. For as much as I shit on them for embracing those western influences, and least they looked the part. I liked those short sleeve button ups and funny short ties, flight suits etc. They didn't come off as cheesy or pretentious, just goofy Swedes having a good time. He was witty with his comments between the songs, actual dry wit that was genuinely funny. Still awkward and a bit shy but drunk Anders knew how to have a good time on stage.
Then came.. whatever the fuck this is. Midlife crisis I guess. Deep into your 40s, wearing your son's clothing, skinny jeans, hipster beard, hipster shirts, the whole Wallmart starter pack. Making cliche hip hop movements with your extended arm flailing up and down and asking for "motherfuckers to get and jump the fuck up". While I'm sure that their current audience eats that shit up for breakfast, it just feels very disingenuous and almost quintessentially anti-Swedish. And when you pay attention to him, half the time he looks like he doesn't even want to be there, just going through the motions. Below average showmanship.

 

[eochaid]

@DE4life SC is totally a continuation of SOAPF. Same sound, different, more mellow and slower approach. I should know, because that shitty fucking rock sound is persistent on both records, and they are like the least IF albums out there. Okay, there's also Battles, but I'm trying to have my cognitive dissonance up and going, and pretend that Battles was something more.

Yeah, System is absolutely not Korn-like. Korn elements would be his raspy singing. Like, I could totally see JD sing The Quiet Place with a slightly different and slower tune.



I wouldn't count vocals. That's not what we are talking about.

And who wouldn't want to drink?! It's a great way to relax, and let go of being self-conscious. Not everyone is a party animal by nature.

What? If you don't count vocals then anyone in a band can be a frontman.

I would understand people being drunken after the show. But before or during it? No. Alcohol alters your senses. In fact, it changes your experience.

I like to enjoy things by myself.

 

[Jester Slave]

It changes your experience for the better. Unless you are in the opera or something, where every note is hit perfectly, and you want to marvel at it all.

As for Anders dressing and behaving the way he does... I say good for him. It's very petty to criticize him for it and say it's just a midlife crisis or something. I'm glad he doesn't give a fuck, and it's the same with his dreads when he was younger. I'm sure all the arm-chair psychologists here had a "good idea" why he did that, but the truth is probably quite simple: he thought it looked cool - as good a reason as any. People criticizing him are probably doing the same shit they've been doing their entire life because they are afraid that if they changed things up, people would ridicule them.

It's just funny you praise drunken Anders, but think he is a clown now. Oh yes, when he was fucking drunk out of his mind, that was so rock and roll man, so cool. I had so much respect for him bruh, that's how you know he is a real metal guy. I hope at nights he beats that bitch wife of his up and throws up in the kitchen. Yeaaaah, so coool man. Ridiculous. When I rewatch those shows, he looks pathetic. He can barely speak, can barely remember the lyrics, and barely has any idea where he's at. That is nothing to aspire for. I understand why he did it, so I am not scolding him retrospectively, but to actually praise that behavior is sad.

He is energetic know, knows how to turn up the crowd to 11, and he is still organically funny because he still has his dry sense of humor. He's also quite nice. Anyway, if it works, it works. It would be an entirely different beast if he was doing his up and down hand thing, and the crowd was like wtf are you doing.

 

[eochaid]

It changes your experience for the better. Unless you are in the opera or something, where every note is hit perfectly, and you want to marvel at it all.

You know, there's a reason as to why fucking a drunken woman is considered rape. There's also a reason as to why you not get drunken before watching a movie, listening to music or going into your first date.

It changes your experience for worse. Ah yes, your senses are telling you that everything is so fucking great while you're peeing in front of the scenario under the astounded look of Anders and the security crew .

No wonder that you think that Anders is such a great frontman .

 

[drawntoblack]

I'm sure all the arm-chair psychologists here had a "good idea" why he did that

It's just funny you praise drunken Anders, but think he is a clown now. Oh yes, when he was fucking drunk out of his mind, that was so rock and roll man, so cool. I had so much respect for him bruh, that's how you know he is a real metal guy. I hope at nights he beats that bitch wife of his up and throws up in the kitchen. Yeaaaah, so coool man. Ridiculous.

Talk about both irony and projecting

 

[DE4life]

Drinking can make a bad or average performance seem a lot better, but it's obviously not an objective view.

Personally I don't drink at gigs, but it's nothing to do with making the experience better or worse. Alcohol goes through me pretty fast and I don't want to have to go for a piss midway through the set

Good to see Slave going back to his roots, lashing out in defence of Anders

 

[Jester Slave]

You know, there's a reason as to why fucking a drunken woman is considered rape. There's also a reason as to why you not get drunken before watching a movie, listening to music or going into your first date.

It changes your experience for worse. Ah yes, your senses are telling you that everything is so fucking great while you're peeing in front of the scenario under the astounded look of Anders and the security crew .

No wonder that you think that Anders is such a great frontman .

Well, I assume the law is somewhat deeper than just talking about drunk girls. Otherwise, everyone would be in jail. And ideally, you drink some on your first date, though to each their own.

How does being drunk changes your experience for the worse? It can elevate certain experiences. And yes, it can elevate a live show as well, because you are more carefree, you give yourself up to the music, to the experience. Sure, if you are the kind of guy who has no issues going to the dancefloor while full sober, good for you. That would never work for most of us. Also, even if it would, drinking some still elevates the experience. No, you don't have to be blackout drunk, obviously.

Talk about both irony and projecting

The irony is that you suck up to an unhealthy, self-destructive behavior, because it amuses you, then crawl back to your shell when it's something out of your comfort zone. I pity you if being ass-drunk is what makes a good frontman for you, but if someone wears a baseball hat and is vibing to his music, that's lame. It's your values, but I can judge them. I am just happy if Anders' abandoning being wasted on stage keeps people like you away from the live shows.

 

[The Grayfox]

As for Anders dressing and behaving the way he does... I say good for him. It's very petty to criticize him for it and say it's just a midlife crisis or something. I'm glad he doesn't give a fuck, and it's the same with his dreads when he was younger. I'm sure all the arm-chair psychologists here had a "good idea" why he did that, but the truth is probably quite simple: he thought it looked cool - as good a reason as any. People criticizing him are probably doing the same shit they've been doing their entire life because they are afraid that if they changed things up, people would ridicule them.

Hey man, I'm proud of my arm chair psychology doctorate. Don't try to diminish my accomplishments.

Side note, I was at the very first show In Flames played after Anders got the dreads done. I believe he got them done the day before or maybe even the day of. I'm trying to think back if people talked shit about his hair. I mean, I guess I remember a little bit of it. I just remember being confused at first, wondering who the hell was on stage. It took a few minutes to realize that it was Anders. Personally, I don't give a shit what anybody's hair looks like.

 

[drawntoblack]

The irony is that you suck up to an unhealthy, self-destructive behavior, because it amuses you, then crawl back to your shell when it's something out of your comfort zone. I pity you if being ass-drunk is what makes a good frontman for you, but if someone wears a baseball hat and is vibing to his music, that's lame. It's your values, but I can judge them. I am just happy if Anders' abandoning being wasted on stage keeps people like you away from the live shows.

First of all, the irony is that you make a low-effort dig at calling someone an 'armchair psychologist" for making astute observations based on evidence, but then do the same thing yourself. Except it's not the same thing and you are misquoting people while putting your words in their mouth. Now we covered the basic concept of irony.

Second of all, I never said drinking is cool nor advocated for alcoholism. I just said that he was a better frontman in that period. If drinking or drugs made him a better stage persona, me saying that doesn't mean I'm advocating for that behavior. Megadeth made their best records while they were all on heroin. Me saying that sentence doesn't mean I advocate for usage of heroin.

And third of all, a man with a weeb avatar saying "it's your values, but I can judge them" is impossible to take seriously. Look up the definition of irony again for further clarification.

 

[eochaid]

Well, I assume the law is somewhat deeper than just talking about drunk girls. Otherwise, everyone would be in jail. And ideally, you drink some on your first date, though to each their own.

No. And what?

How does being drunk changes your experience for the worse?

Are you saying that drunken Jesper was better than sober Jesper?

It can elevate certain experiences. And yes, it can elevate a live show as well, because you are more carefree, you give yourself up to the music, to the experience.

ItIIt doesn't elevate shit. Only affects how your brain sees things. But that's not real. The evidence is your memories of Anders as a frontman.

 

[Jester Slave]

Hey man, I'm proud of my arm chair psychology doctorate. Don't try to diminish my accomplishments.

Side note, I was at the very first show In Flames played after Anders got the dreads done. I believe he got them done the day before or maybe even the day of. I'm trying to think back if people talked shit about his hair. I mean, I guess I remember a little bit of it. I just remember being confused at first, wondering who the hell was on stage. It took a few minutes to realize that it was Anders. Personally, I don't give a shit what anybody's hair looks like.

You guys talked about old-school forums, so I am sure if we would search way, way back down the time, we would find many harsh comments. And that's fine, if you think something is silly, just say so, but ultimately one's look is not made to impress you. Anyway, it was around the time they started to be "americanized", so having such a "trendy" design choice would be an easy target for the haters to justify their ill feelings. Feelings which may be valid, just having nothing to do with one's particular look.

First of all, the irony is that you make a low-effort dig at calling someone an 'armchair psychologist" for making astute observations based on evidence, but then do the same thing yourself. Except it's not the same thing and you are misquoting people while putting your words in their mouth. Now we covered the basic concept of irony.

Second of all, I never said drinking is cool nor advocated for alcoholism. I just said that he was a better frontman in that period. If drinking or drugs made him a better stage persona, me saying that doesn't mean I'm advocating for that behavior. Megadeth made their best records while they were all on heroin. Me saying that sentence doesn't mean I advocate for usage of heroin.

And third of all, a man with a weeb avatar saying "it's your values, but I can judge them" is impossible to take seriously. Look up the definition of irony again for further clarification.

Astute observation my ass. Just imagine me putting the Obama awarding Obama picture here, because that's what it reminds me of. You are an armchair psychologist because you truly believe that your farts smell good. So the guy, who had dreadlocks, has worn numerous uniforms, has worn a Linkin Park shirt has a mid-life crisis because he is wearing hip clothes now? Jesus Christ... It just shows your bias towards him.

Many great works has been done under the influence, that is not controversial at all. But Anders babbling nonsense while drunk is hardly the prime example of good showmanship. Also, he is still drinking, he's just not pathetic on stage every other show.

What does a weeb avatar have to do with anything? Your prejudice is leaking, while you desperately try to keep up the facade that you have an open mindset. Calling me a weeb is kind of a far cry, as a weeb is someone who is rather obsessed with anime culture, but let's look past of you not being aware of what words mean. I mean, you missed the point with irony as well, so I don't expect someone of your (presumed) age to actually have an idea what words like weeb mean. It shows your 2-dimensional thinking. You see an anime avatar and you just jump to conclusions, because your brain is wired to simplicity. This simple mindset is why you like drunken Anders, but think if he dresses sharp then he must have a midlife crisis, and oh my good, he is flapping his hands?? Pathetic!!!

Dude, if you are not the stereotypical metalhead, I would be amazed. I mean, they are not bad guys, very easy to talk to, but goddamn they can be simpler than a rock sometimes, because their views is stuck in the 1950s.

 

[Jester Slave]

No. And what?


Are you saying that drunken Jesper was better than sober Jesper?



ItIIt doesn't elevate shit. Only affects how your brain sees things. But that's not real. The evidence is your memories of Anders as a frontman.

And what? Dude, you can't just say fucking a drunk girl is rape, when you need a HUGE asterix to explain that this is not exactly true. You are talking about an entirely different level of drunkenness.

I don't know if drunken Jesper was better, than sober Jesper. But I do know that it severely hurt him and his life. I won't say ruined, because who knows, maybe he is still rich and happy, but he could have been so much more - even if his name is already cemented as one of the greats.

How can you say it doesn't elevate shit. You are having the same level of enjoyment from friendly gatherings with and without alcohol? I hate people who parrot that they don't need alcohol to enjoy themselves. LIke, okay, me neither, but if it's a plus, then why not? If you can hold your liquor and drink responsibly, it's fine.