In praise of Saxon

[Marshall Stack]

But there's an urgency to Saxon's stuff right now that rivals their early days

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there!

To me back in 1980 the NWOBHM was a scene that was just overflowing with energy, excitement and vitality and SAXON to me were right at the front of it,that plus fantasic songs with great riffs, superb hooks, the most memorable choruses around. I was totally sold on 'em.

Unfortunatally I'd have to admit that they totally lost the plot in the mid to late 80's, and I lost intrest (only temporarily of course!!). However since Solid Ball Of Rock I belive that they've been gradually clawing back whatever it was that signing to EMI caused them to lose.

And finally on to my point, having seen SAXON live (and listened to all their albums) many many times, I have to say that since Dogs of War and probably more noticeably since Metalhead they've achieved that level of "URGENCY" which you mentioned.

During the early - mid 90's listening to SAXON albums and especially watching them live you really got the feeling that they could (and should) move on from the past a bit and I have to say that since the Unleash the Beast tour they've definately done that, especially as far as leaving the 80's behind

The last two albums have not only shown the desire to progress and experiment (Court of the Cimson King), but have also contained some true classic SAXON tracks (with all the attributes that I mentioned above). To me it's a joy to hear a band both return to and embrace what it was they did they did so well 20 odd years ago (and do it so well!!!!)

Obviously most of the live shows are packed out with classics (come on if you wrote something as great as Wheels of Steel or Strong Arm of the Law you'd fuckin' play it!!!!!!!!!!!) However it's the way in which it's played, the enthusiasm that's put into it, plus the strengh of conviction that carries over with the new songs, (which they're not shy of playing) that makes SAXON 2005 such an amazing experience!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ElectricWiz]

Good words. AND, I have to agree with you that their cover of Court of The Crimson King was somewhat daring, and I might add, awesome.

 

[Fangface]

AND, I have to agree with you that their cover of Court of The Crimson King was somewhat daring, and I might add, awesome.

Agreed

Still one of the best Heavy Metal bands on earth, and after all these years these guys never stop touring over here, always on the road kicking ass night after night

 

[Wyvern]

Agreed

Seconded, a great cover IMO.

 

[SoundMaster]

Seconded, a great cover IMO.

One of the very few examples of a cover actually bettering the oiginal!!

As it turns out, I feel that the two latest Saxon albums ARE their best work, better than Strong Arm or Wheels, etc. They've been that good!

 

[Electronicoil]

You know, at the cusp of the NWOBHM Saxon, Maiden, and Priest were the "big three." You know what happened well enough with the other two, but Saxon never really caught on in America. Everytime I go on this binge I find myself wondering at that. I suppose it has something to do with Biff's voice. I mean, I think he's got a love it or hate it voice. Or maybe it's a bunch of factors

I don't think it's Biff. I think it's because Saxon were more "straight up" traditional metal whereas Maiden and Priest were really bending metal in new directions. I remember moving from America to England in '87 and Saxon were huge in the UK but I never really accepted them fully. When friends wanted to play them, they were fine by me, but I never craved to listen to them.

Nowadays I like them a whole lot, actually, but I still think the reason they didn't catch on fully in America was because their songwriting just wasn't pushing the edge as much as the bands that got huge.

Not a bash of Saxon at all. I like Saxon.

 

[Priest of Evil]

yer, I kinda agree with Elect. I dont think it was Biff's fault. I really adore Saxon and have worn Saxon patches proudly since high school but they missed out. Why, who really knows, too metal, too rock, not consistent enough? Fukk so many possibilites. In the end only one band can be at the top and it was Maiden, maybe it was due to the intial punk influence in Maiden, I dunno, speculation is evil, heh.

Unfortunately they were lacking the Midas Touch at the crucial moment

 

[ElectricWiz]

yer, I kinda agree with Elect. I dont think it was Biff's fault. I really adore Saxon and have worn Saxon patches proudly since high school but they missed out. Why, who really knows, too metal, too rock, not consistent enough? Fukk so many possibilites. In the end only one band can be at the top and it was Maiden, maybe it was due to the intial punk influence in Maiden, I dunno, speculation is evil, heh.

Unfortunately they were lacking the Midas Touch at the crucial moment

Haha. There is a funny little joke in your last statement, pardon my dorkiness! When Power and the Glory was initially released in America, they put a re-recorded version of Suzie Hold On on there as a single, thinking that was what America was all about. The song they dropped (but that stayed on the European release) was the more metal, more European Midas Touch. So, they were indeed missing the Midas touch at the crucial moment.

 

[Hawk]

Haha. There is a funny little joke in your last statement, pardon my dorkiness! When Power and the Glory was initially released in America, they put a re-recorded version of Suzie Hold On on there as a single, thinking that was what America was all about. The song they dropped (but that stayed on the European release) was the more metal, more European Midas Touch. So, they were indeed missing the Midas touch at the crucial moment.

LOL. When I read what Priest said I thought of Midas Touch as well. Only I have not heard of what you are saying here.

 

[ElectricWiz]

LOL. When I read what Priest said I thought of Midas Touch as well. Only I have not heard of what you are saying here.

Yeah, I only know this because I bought my copy when first it was released in America. It wasn't until years later that I even heard of Midas Touch. The last five years even. Incidentally, now it's hard to find that version of Suzie Hold On. Too bad, because it was a good version. I had an MP3 for awhile, but lost it in a harddrive crash.

 

[Hawk]

Yeah, I only know this because I bought my copy when first it was released in America. It wasn't until years later that I even heard of Midas Touch. The last five years even. Incidentally, now it's hard to find that version of Suzie Hold On. Too bad, because it was a good version. I had an MP3 for awhile, but lost it in a harddrive crash.

Don't worry within the few years they will be releasing an extra extra shining new remastered version of "Power and the Glory" with said track as an Xtra special bonus track

 

[Priest of Evil]

Midas Touch is a great fukken song!

 

[Wyvern]

Midas Touch is a great fukken song!

I disagree. To me it's the only song from PATG I can't stand, otherwise it would had been the perfect album for me. Still I regard it almong the best of the band, and the title song it's to me the PERFECT definition of Hevay Metal, what's about and what's stand for

NP: Blue Murder - 'Cry For Love'

 

[Hawk]

Thats some scary dude you have there as your avatar Wyv! I trust that everything else if fine?

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

Maybe it's to their advantage that Saxon didn't catch on the same way that Maiden and Priest did.....especially over in North America. For the most part, Saxon's sound and musical chops have improved over their career, where Maiden and Priest have been forced into this little cocoon of having to continue to write and play what essentially made them famous back in the day.

I'm not saying that Maiden and Priest are slouches. But with success comes a comfort zone which Saxon has never had. It's been album, tour.....album, tour.....throughout their career. With little or no time for side projects.....ala Bruce and Rob. Thus, no major ego clashes or squabbles.

I first heard Saxon in 1981.....I think the track was Dallas 1PM. They had a rawness and grittiness that Maiden didn't.....especially after Dianno was replaced with Dickinson. Then 1982 came, and Number of the Beast and Screaming for Vengeance caught everyone's attention. And Saxon was more or less relegated to an after thought over here.

In 'Crusader'.....you could almost hear them trying to grasp what they thought the American market was about. Maybe they were just too "English" for North American soil. I dunno.

But I think it made them more determined and better in the long run. They had no expectations thrust on them other than their sheer will to create classic metal music without having to be everything to everyone the way that Maiden and Priest have to be. It's a godsend and a curse all at the same time.

 

[ElectricWiz]

Maybe it's to their advantage that Saxon didn't catch on the same way that Maiden and Priest did.....especially over in North America. For the most part, Saxon's sound and musical chops have improved over their career, where Maiden and Priest have been forced into this little cocoon of having to continue to write and play what essentially made them famous back in the day.

I'm not saying that Maiden and Priest are slouches. But with success comes a comfort zone which Saxon has never had. It's been album, tour.....album, tour.....throughout their career. With little or no time for side projects.....ala Bruce and Rob. Thus, no major ego clashes or squabbles.

I first heard Saxon in 1981.....I think the track was Dallas 1PM. They had a rawness and grittiness that Maiden didn't.....especially after Dianno was replaced with Dickinson. Then 1982 came, and Number of the Beast and Screaming for Vengeance caught everyone's attention. And Saxon was more or less relegated to an after thought over here.

In 'Crusader'.....you could almost hear them trying to grasp what they thought the American market was about. Maybe they were just too "English" for North American soil. I dunno.

But I think it made them more determined and better in the long run. They had no expectations thrust on them other than their sheer will to create classic metal music without having to be everything to everyone the way that Maiden and Priest have to be. It's a godsend and a curse all at the same time.

These are good thoughts, and I must admit that from time to time I thought the problem was that Saxon was indeed, as you put it, too English. Kind of hard to qualify that, but I think it's a good statement. And Crusader was most definately the beginning of the period in which the tried harder to appeal to the American market. Hell, it had a song on it called Sailing To America for cripes sake. Not a bad tune really, but not exactly archetypal Saxon either.

 

[SoundMaster]

These are good thoughts, and I must admit that from time to time I thought the problem was that Saxon was indeed, as you put it, too English. Kind of hard to qualify that, but I think it's a good statement. And Crusader was most definately the beginning of the period in which the tried harder to appeal to the American market. Hell, it had a song on it called Sailing To America for cripes sake. Not a bad tune really, but not exactly archetypal Saxon either.

As I see it, they tried to be TOO American, as it were, and they failed miserably at it. Again, the party cock-rock hair music on "Innocence is No Excuse" and "Rock the Nations" is laughably bad. Let Leppard do what they were doing alone. Heck, I even read an interview with Biff a year or two ago where he even admits to trying to be the 'next Def Lep'.

And is Maiden not the definition of British? Their only real stab at American cock-rock metal, as I see it, was the abysmal "Bring Your Daughter", which ironically, was a #1 in England!! Yet, despite their 'Britishness', they broke America.

If we really think about it, there are/were a number of great bands that never really 'broke America' but should have. Perhaps, with Saxon, it was more than the music. Perhaps their label failed miserably at promoting them? Perhaps it was something as cheesy as their dreadful (early-mid 80s) appearance? Let's face it: in 1984, they were not going to be mistaken for Vince Neil and Tommy Lee. Were they marketable BEYOND the music they produced? As we all know, popularity is often MUCH more than the music itself (sadly). Particularly in the 80s, when MTV was new and was an incredibily important tool for promoting bands.

As as aside, my first exposure to Saxon WAS on MTV. Back in the mid 80s, the Headbangers Ball (actually, I think it was the weekly, or bi-weekly, metal show that predated the Ball) played "Broken Heroes" a few times, before it trinkled off into obscurity.

In any event, the Saxon of the new millenium is an awesome band, making great music, who may actually have their best years in front of them.

 

[The Winnipeg Warrior]

Another thing could be this: Saxon didn't have any marketing gimmicks. Def Leppard had the Union Jack apparel, Maiden had Eddie, Priest had the Harley.....and all those stage characters (Metallian, Painkiller, etc.).....that appeals to us over here in North America.

These gimmicks can translate to merchandising.....posters, caps, t-shirts, tattoos.....it's what sells over here. Just look at Megadeth's "Vic Rattlehead." If you have a mascot or something marketable, other than your music.....the merchandising possibities are endless. And that's what it's all about. Making money.....it's a business after all.

Saxon didn't really have something to that degree.....and didn't buy into that. Limited vision and business skils, wrong management, not their style.....it's anybody's guess. What Saxon did have was their music.....but it wasn't enough.

Still, I'm glad that Saxon has never been forgotten by their base over here. I just wish that bands like Priest or Maiden could bring them over and expose their music to the North American audience.....especially over 30-40 dates. Then they could get some momentum and cash flow and do a longer tour in support of someone else.....or preferably on their own.

 

[Fink]

All right guys I am a total Saxon newbie, beat on me hard..
but when you're done please recommend me some tracks cause I'm seeing them live on the 16th and I don't wanna go clueless..
Also how long is there live shows usually? anyone knows the expected setlist?
Thanks in advance

 

[Wyvern]

All right guys I am a total Saxon newbie, beat on me hard..
but when you're done please recommend me some tracks cause I'm seeing them live on the 16th and I don't wanna go clueless..
Also how long is there live shows usually? anyone knows the expected setlist?
Thanks in advance

1. Live show duration: depending if they are on tour or as part of a festival. I'll say that 1-2 h is a safe range.
2. The setlist must be available on their webpage I guess http://www.saxon747.com/
3. Recommended songs, hmm a tough one, almost all are good

• Motorcycle Man
• Killing Ground
• 747 (strangers in the night)
• Dallas 1 PM
• Denim & Leather
• Power and the Glory
• Lionheart
• Princess of the Night
• Crusader
• Dogs of War
• Solid Ball of Rock
• Red Alert
• Rock'N'Roll Gypsy
• etc.