Is our music becoming classic rock?

[adaher]

Think about it. Some of the biggest albums in our genre:

Edguy-Vain Glory Opera
Angra-Holy Land
Stratovarius-Visions
Conception-Flow
Kamelot-Fourth Legacy
Rhapsody- Symphony of Enchanted Lands
Labyrinth-Return to Heaven Denied
Nightwish-Wishmaster
Blind Guardian-Imaginations from the Other Side


are more than 10 years old! Some of our favorite bands that we consider to be in the modern metal scene have been around for 15 years or more!

Okay, feeling old aside, how do you feel these now classic metal albums stack up with the older classics like Powerslave, Keeper of the Seven Keys, Holy Diver, Images and Words, etc.? IMO, they are right up there, I realize these bands will never achieve the sales figures of Iron Maiden, Dio, or Black Sabbath, but they deserve a place in the Hall of Fame for what they've contributed to the evolution of our favorite music.

 

[Braxil]

While I agree that many of the albums you mentioned (Holy Land, Visions, IftoS) are already being considered "classics" by some due to their influence, "classic rock" is more of a genre as opposed to "rock music that is considered classic".

 

[nailz]

"our" music?

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Classic to us, maybe. But not to the masses. Gotta remember, today's "classic rock" has been virtually the same since the mid 80s. The 70s and 80s were hard rock/metal's glory years, topping the charts with everything from Zeppelin to Boston to Motley Crue. All experienced music fans know of them.

From the 90s on, the record companies have been pushing the whole grungealtnumetalscreamo noise that doesn't hold enough melody for the masses and therefore will never become "classic".

 

[edgeofthorns]

I do understand the point you're making, but I have a hard time considering the albums listed, classic rock. Mainly for the reason that those albums aren't rock, but they're several sub-genres of metal. Those albums might be considered "classics" to us, but not to the masses.

~Brian~

 

[edgeofthorns]

"our" music?

He's referring to the music that we, on this board, listen to. Why the question?

~Brian~

 

[Cheiron]

Classic Rock is a radio programming term. Its not a genre. And only certain metal, such as Black Sabbath, & some hair metal, ever falls into it.

 

[General Zod]

Okay, feeling old aside, how do you feel these now classic metal albums stack up with the older classics like Powerslave, Keeper of the Seven Keys, Holy Diver, Images and Words, etc.? IMO, they are right up there, I realize these bands will never achieve the sales figures of Iron Maiden, Dio, or Black Sabbath, but they deserve a place in the Hall of Fame for what they've contributed to the evolution of our favorite music.

I couldn't disagree more. There's no way to put the bands you mentioned on equal footing with Maiden, Dio, Queensryche, Dream Theater, etc. And record sales have nothing to do with it. These latter bands have done an admirable job carrying the torch. However, comparing Gamma Ray to Helloween or Edguy to Maiden is practically absurd.

Zod

 

[Cheiron]

Zod. Are you talking more in terms of ... progressing music (being the first to do it, etc) or quality of albums?

For quality, I'd put several of those bands (Kamelot, Conception, Avantasia, Therion, Nightwish) up there with Dio, Sabbath, etc. As for a 'classic' album status. I don't know. Its really hard to say something is that until years down the line and in retrospect. Really, until an album feels -old- it doesn't seem fit to have achieved classic status. And albums like Flow still feel fresh. I don't know. In the future maybe.

I think one of the major reasons that albums today very rarely have that feeling of 'classic' is because so many do not have a strong 'bass' riff. If you listen to many of the classic albums, there is just something 'extra' there. Something that says 'hey this is a great song that would be great alone from the album. Its memorable, yet not in a bad, cheap, unintellectual way."

So few have that distinction from song to song, with amazing moments of lyrical ingenuity.

Much of today's metal feels rushed. Like everybody is trying to put out an album before finishing their lessons. Like everybody wants to show how they can play like Eddie Van Halen (err.. maybe its now like.. MJR or Skolnick), before learning basic composition.

For some reason, I think that the ease at which it is these days to form a band, and record some songs... is lowering the quality of bands that might otherwise be great. Nontheless, that few bands ever jam together anymore for weeks, nontheless months or years before producing an album. The only ones doing that are 'local' bands. And local bands have a nasty thing working against them. They all want to 'put out the album'. They all want to play live every week. They should listen to Bumblefoot's advice and play less live, and work more on writing music.

There is still some great music coming out. But its coming out of the same people that produced great music in the 80s and early 90s.

Finally, its harder to be a 'classic' album these days. Zod has talked about something similar in the past. Due to the amount of music we have coming out, the tendency to buy several albums at once, the ease at which to hear a new album after a torrent download..... how often is an album given a chance by a number of people, not just repeated listens, but near memorization, not just love of a band, but vehement dislike for almost everything else for a period of time....

Rarely.


p.s. The power law states that things will happen in 'clumps.' So when greatness returns it will return in a clump just as it did in the 70s, and we'll have a lot to love and call classic in future days.

 

[General Zod]

Zod. Are you talking more in terms of ... progressing music (being the first to do it, etc) or quality of albums?

A little of both.

I'm not one to simply state, everything older is better. That's simply not true. I think there are a number of bands who have taken the foundation that many of the originators layed and built something substantial upon it. .

Which one of the above bands has a disc that stands shoulder to shoulder with Operation: Mindcrime? Images and Words? Seventh Son? To do what those older bands did, you need not only to write great songs, you also need to come up with something original. Some of those bands come close. But Edguy? Gamma Ray?

Zod

 

[Yngvai X]

A little of both.

I'm not one to simply state, everything older is better. That's simply not true. I think there are a number of bands who have taken the foundation that many of the originators layed and built something substantial upon it. .

Which one of the above bands has a disc that stands shoulder to shoulder with Operation: Mindcrime? Images and Words? Seventh Son? To do what those older bands did, you need not only to write great songs, you also need to come up with something original. Some of those bands come close. But Edguy? Gamma Ray?

Zod

I agree. When we talk about Iron Maiden, or Judas Priest, or Metallica, etc. We're talking about bands that were breaking serious ground, and doing it well, and generating enough exposure for themselves to have it affect a lot of listeners. The only powermetal band thats broken similar ground is Helloween. Children of Bodom are one band I can think of that will eventually be held in similar regard, as they were/are similarly groundbreaking and immensely popular. Death is another. The only melodic-vocal band that I can think of that could be is maybe Nightwish. Nevermore could, and very much deserves it, however, we still have to see what kind of exposure they get as they go on.

I don't think it diminishes a good band that isn't necessarily groundbreaking though. Take a look at a band like Testament. By the time they came along, the thrash sound was pretty established, they just did it their own ass-kicking way, and are revered for it. I would compare a band like Edguy to them, in their respective genres, for this reason.

 

[General Zod]

I don't think it diminishes a good band that isn't necessarily groundbreaking though.

Agreed. One of my favorite bands is Iced Earth. Hardly groundbreaking.

Zod

 

[Magius]

Almost nothing I listen to will ever be called "classic rock."

 

[Creeps]

From "Radio's point of view" anything 10+years old is considered "classic" for airplay.

 

[adaher]

IMO, today's power and prog metal is a natural evolution from the metal of the 80s, just as the metal of the 80s was a natural progression from the 70s. I think that today's best bands stack up well with the best of the 70s and 80s.

 

[adaher]

Okay Zod, how about a more apples to apples comparison? Who are putting out the better albums NOW: Edguy, Angra, Stratovarius, or Maiden, Dio, Queensryche?

 

[General Zod]

Okay Zod, how about a more apples to apples comparison? Who are putting out the better albums NOW: Edguy, Angra, Stratovarius, or Maiden, Dio, Queensryche?

I assume you're joking? You don't honestly believe that's an apples to apples comparison? Aside from the obvious flaws in such a comparison, it wasn't your original contention.

If you were to compare baseball players from different eras, you wouldn't compare the 2007 Alex Rodriguez to the 2007 Babe Ruth. The 2007 Babe would be 112 (just like Dio) and probably wouldn't hit for as much power. Clearly, you need to compare prime vs. prime.

So... which disc from Edguy, Angra or Stratovarius did you want to line up against Operation: Mindcrime and which did you want to line up against Powerslave?

Zod

 

[adaher]

I'd put Holy Land, Vain Glory Opera, or Visions up against anything from the 80s.

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

I have a feeling that this is just going to be a difference of opinion because IMO maybe if you combine all three of those together you get O:MC, but maybe thats just me.

EDIT: Look at my post and then Zod's: we responded simultaneously with almost the exact answer. LOL

 

[General Zod]

I'd put Holy Land, Vain Glory Opera, or Visions up against anything from the 80s.

As I always say, to each their own. For my money, all three of the those discs combined are less than one one hundredth of Mindcrime.

Just curious, did you grow up in the 80s or are you a bit younger? I don't ask that in any sort of adversarial way, I'm merely trying to get a sense of your perspective.

Zod