Israel.

[J.DavisNJ]

I'll clarify my statement; I hate the Israeli government and the concept of partitioning the area to form the country to begin with. I'm 100% on the side of the Palestinians on this one.

JHA: Perhaps, but there's no denying the aggression of the Iranian regime against Israel, be it banter or whatever else. Point being pre-revolutionary Iran actually had friendly relations with Israel.

Jeff,

Care to go a bit further with that one? You're against any partitioning or feel that the entirety of Israel should belong to the Arabs?

Of course it would be excellent if both people could live in harmony, but it's undeniably true that it would be a disaster for both people, worse so than the current situation.

Joe

Edit: My bad, misread your statement Jeff. The partitioning really was the only viable option. Yes, deifnitely a significant influx of Jews into Mandate Palestine after WWII, but so what, Jews have lived there for thousands of years. The partitioning, or rather an independent state for each side, was absolutely necessary IMO.

 

[JeffTD]

The area was Palestine until the British took it over in the early 1900's, and then in 1947 the UN partitioned the state and wah-lah, we've got Israel. It's a country based on ridiculous religious claims to territory and post-WWII guilt. It IS Palestine as far as I'm concerned, and Israel as a state is nothing more than a group of coddled, self-important, overly funded, entitled kids playing in a really big sandbox. Anytime someone tries to point out how much of a dick they are they cry to daddy (the US) and get him to intervene, and then whine constantly to influence foreign policy when they're not in conflict.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Plus, I think it's also fair to mention the huge number of Jews that were booted or fled from Arab aggression in countries they have also lived in for hundreds of years, like Iraq, Tunisia, Algeria, etc. Just gives a bit of perspective.

 

[JeffTD]

I'm not trying to justify any of those situations but to get up in arms about the Jews being ousted from their lands by the Arabs but somehow be OK with Israel existing takes a certain amount of willful ignorance.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

The area was Palestine until the British took it over in the early 1900's, and then in 1947 the UN partitioned the state and wah-lah, we've got Israel. It's a country based on ridiculous religious claims to territory and post-WWII guilt. It IS Palestine as far as I'm concerned, and Israel as a state is nothing more than a group of coddled, self-important, overly funded, entitled kids playing in a really big sandbox. Anytime someone tries to point out how much of a dick they are they cry to daddy (the US) and get him to intervene, and then whine constantly to influence foreign policy when they're not in conflict.

Well, the area that Palestinians should have sovereignty over would be called Palestine proper if they could simply get along with the Israelis. I don't understand why it's such a crazy concept to have two states.

Anyway, doesn't seem like we will agree on this one. We have pretty fundamentally different views.

Joe

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I'm not trying to justify any of those situations but to get up in arms about the Jews being ousted from their lands by the Arabs but somehow be OK with Israel existing takes a certain amount of willful ignorance.

Nope, don't think so. You can think it's as black and white as you want, but nothing in the middle east, especially Israel, ever is.

Again, it's all perspective. Side A says the Arab Palestinians were booted from their land prior to 1948 by the evil zionists, side B says their leaders told them to flee because the shit was going to hit the fan very soon. I've yet to find any objective evidence pointing to either side.

It's nasty politics in either situation, but I fail to see how either side is any different than the formation of any country, including ours. In fact, ours seems particularly more brutal.

Regardless of the outcome, after the war of independence the Israelis wanted peace, were willing to give the majority of the land back to the Palestinians, but they weren't having it.

Something tells me we would go back and forth for an eternity about this topic.

We can agree to disagree if you'd like. How is that ESP treating you?



Joe

 

[JeffTD]

I just don't at all get how you can say it's different; Jews being ousted from Arab lands, Palestine being stolen via UN influence from Arabs and given to Jews. Pretty apples:apples, from where I'm sitting.

The Israeli land offering would be like us offering Bakersfield back to the Mexicans in return for stealing California from them - it's more of an insult than an actual peace offering.

I sold that ESP at some point a while back; been through too many guitars at this point to remember! I *think* it helped to fund my Stinnett, so it was definitely put to good use!

 

[Vicioushead]

I don't know if this is a popular point of view amongst Israeli's but a jewish "friend" recently told me that Muslims are "animals, and should all be wiped out".

I don't know about you, but that's a pretty disgusting thing to say. It really made me wonder how many other people feel that way out there.

 

[Mutant]

This topic is about Iran/Israel not about North Korea.

NK was only an example.

I still don't see anything in your post that explains why you think Iran would be a threat. All I see really is your personal (biased?) opinion and what you think you know about the subject.

You seem to think that Iran would be a threat only if they wanted to drop the bomb on someone.

I am trying to tell you that Iran having a bomb would not only be a threat to the current balance of power in the region, but the balance would change for sure.

I am not talking about them starting a war, because they won't.

It is like 2 men threatening each other with their bare fists and then suddenly one of them shows he has a gun - he doesn't need to pull out that gun, he doesn't need to fire, the balance of power is already broken just by his opponent knowing about the gun.
Then the armed guy can form demands like "give me your wallet" without even telling the unarmed guy what will happen if the demand is rejected.

Iran having nuclear weapons will most likely result in prices of oil going up.

Iran would be extremely stupid to not cash in on their new position on the ladder of power.

 

[Mutant]

I don't know if this is a popular point of view amongst Israeli's but a jewish "friend" recently told me that Muslims are "animals, and should all be wiped out"

Obviously not all Muslims are.
Religious fundamentalist terrorists of any religion are.
Islam rules in a huge part of our world that has very poor education.
The poorer the education, the better environment for religious fundamentalism to flourish and easier for terrorists to brainwash young men and create bloodthirsty suicide drones out of them.

The best way to solve the problem is to diminish the role of religion in their lives by giving them good education, encouraging them to think for themselves.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I just don't at all get how you can say it's different; Jews being ousted from Arab lands, Palestine being stolen via UN influence from Arabs and given to Jews. Pretty apples:apples, from where I'm sitting.

The Israeli land offering would be like us offering Bakersfield back to the Mexicans in return for stealing California from them - it's more of an insult than an actual peace offering.

I sold that ESP at some point a while back; been through too many guitars at this point to remember! I *think* it helped to fund my Stinnett, so it was definitely put to good use!

It's different because nothing was stolen. There were plenty of Jews living in Palestine before the war of independence. The original partition plans were actually not that insane of a deal if you ask me. In fact, the large portion of land in the south intended for the Jews was mostly barren desert anyway.

Man, I had that ESP for like less than a month, hah.

Joe

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I don't know if this is a popular point of view amongst Israeli's but a jewish "friend" recently told me that Muslims are "animals, and should all be wiped out".

I don't know about you, but that's a pretty disgusting thing to say. It really made me wonder how many other people feel that way out there.

Certainly not the opinion among most. Trust me, there are tons of bleeding heart liberals in Israel, lol. And please, have you been living under a rock for the past century to not see the kind of hate that has been spewed against not just Israelis, but Jews in general?

A Palestinian student of my friend (she's a teacher) told her Jews all descended from goats and have tails/horns. It's an elementary school class btw. There's plenty of hate to go around my friend.

Joe

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

I don't know if this is a popular point of view amongst Israeli's but a jewish "friend" recently told me that Muslims are "animals, and should all be wiped out".

Lol I have a friend that is half-jew (if that even makes sense) and told me this concerning islam:

"there's is out of idiocy and ignorance so if they were to be destroyed I woudn't shed a tear the world would be much better Islam is fundamentally corrupt the entire attitude of it most of them are scum a large population of a religion/race to be filth ignorant people breed ignorant children Islam works like a virus the fact that is EXISTS is detrimental ISLAM is the problem they fundamentally contradict with the values that you and I both know were raised wit not to mention the ridiculous practices in Islam against women
stoning do you see christians hurling stones or bombs because someone made fun of Jesus? why are they rioting? because one person here "made fun" of their prophet the Koran teaches this it's ingrained it's everyday life over there constant chaos it's natural for these animals"

 

[JeffTD]

A Palestinian student of my friend (she's a teacher) told her Jews all descended from goats and have tails/horns. It's an elementary school class btw. There's plenty of hate to go around my friend.

She's not wrong...

 

[J.DavisNJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

She's not wrong...

 

[RichS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

She's not wrong...

A jew making fun of jews, how original.

 

[Mutant]

A jew making fun of jews, how original.

But he is making fun of rednecks, not Jews.

 

[Vicioushead]

Certainly not the opinion among most. Trust me, there are tons of bleeding heart liberals in Israel, lol. And please, have you been living under a rock for the past century to not see the kind of hate that has been spewed against not just Israelis, but Jews in general?

A Palestinian student of my friend (she's a teacher) told her Jews all descended from goats and have tails/horns. It's an elementary school class btw. There's plenty of hate to go around my friend.

Joe

Don't be ridiculous. We're all well aware of the hate.

I just thought it was a pretty disgusting thing to say considering the past.

 

[RichS]

But he is making fun of rednecks, not Jews.

Jews make fun of themselves in order to make fun of others. Making fun of rednecks is ok, but as a white guy if I made fun of a Jew I would be an anti semite.

 

[JeffTD]

Jews make fun of themselves in order to make fun of others. Making fun of rednecks is ok, but as a white guy if I made fun of a Jew I would be an anti semite.

You really, really don't get it, do you? He's not making fun of Jews. At all. It's called satire.