Just thought i'd say something !!

[theDarkLord]

When someone says ' Black Metal ' around me, ' Dark Throne ' is the band that comes to my mind.. I enjoy them when I'm in that dark mood, and black metal is not that satanist's thing.. How can you talk about all the listeners just like one ? Then you're just like them all.. Stained by the names of fathers.. LoL..

Opeth is nothing like Black Metal, but I think it is the ' Orchid ' that boosted the Black Metal fans more into Opeth.. And as the scene got more romantic, melodic, and attractive for others, they retreat back, as they've always done.. They usually like to be underground, and hate that trendy thing.. Yes it's not something smart.. And it's not smart either, to listen to just a genre.. Varities always make sense..

Let me attract some of you to the side of Dark Throne..


' The Autumn leaves that fell
And those who still attach the trees
The Breeze that blew my hair
The one I've known through all these years...
The songs I never forgot -
A past that is now Lost.... '

Dark Throne - Sempiternal Past / Presence View Sepulchrality

 

[Protocol]

Darkthrone is so extremely cold music. It's the kind of music I would listen to when I'm furious. Unfortunately, last time I was real mad was back in -93 or -94.

What I wouldn't give to be angry again...

 

[MetalManCPA]

First of all, anyone who berates anyone for listening to any kind of music is a complete idiot.
Any chord, voice, refrain of any song can strike someones heart. I am a true metal fan, but there are "other" songs I like from bands/individuals such as Madonna, Journey, etc. Only the narrow-minded put a label on someone for listening to music.
As for Opeth being trendy - ???????????????????????????
They are anything but that - unique:absolutely!!

 

[Lina]

i don't agree with you, metalmancpa. i think you CAN tell a lot about someone by the kind of music they listen to. obviously, it's not an exact science, but when people don't listen to anything besides what they're fed by MTV or the radio, i think it's extremely safe to assume that they're probably not "intellectually curious" either. if they don't think beyond the trends of the popular music industry, they probably don't spend time pondering much of anything.

metalheads that call opeth gay obviously don't know much about music. i don't think that's an opinion. it's an absolute fact that opeth has very well-developed, well-written, intricate songs -- from a music theory standpoint. (wow, all those SEAMLESS transitions!) now, you can *dislike* them, but you can't say they aren't talented. my second favorite band is lacuna coil, but i would never get annoyed by someone who didn't like them, because i admit that their musical ability isn't superb -- something about them just strikes a chord with me (no pun intended). i mean, i have to admit that i even like a lot of techno that i know isn't musically challenging. again, i wouldn't look down on someone who didn't like it. but i absolutely have no respect for people who don't have the musical knowledge to appreciate opeth. opeth's musicality is fact, not opinion.

 

[Zerokelvin]

Music theory is just that...a theory...not a fact.
Not a fact = non-fact

"it's an absolute fact that opeth has very well-developed, well-written, intricate songs -- from a music theory standpoint"

So a fact coming from a non-fact...no big deal.

Doesn't need musical knowledge to appreciate Opeth.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Lina,
This is point/counterpoint - if you believe you can tell a lot about someone based on only their musical tastes, that in itself is narrow-minded. What about the movies they watch, the food they eat, the car they drive, etc, etc. Music is one microcosm of the self, and nothing more. For some of us, music means more than others. How can anybody be judged on a fraction of the whole to make an opinion on the whole? I love Opeth and the intellect behind it, but other people believe the same about N'Sync. Hopefully I've made my point, and of course, you can disagree. That's what makes us human.

 

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by warsofwinter


When people ask me do i like Dimmu Borgir , I usually say yes , but the truth is , the only good parts in most new Dimmu Borgir songs is when Garm sings , man that guy is talented .

1: i dont think that is garm singin on the new dimmu borgir. that is simen hestnaes from borknagar and a few songs on Arcturus' LMI album....

2: why do you care what people think about you for liking opeth?

3: black metal is cool. i'm not a stupid satanists and i really enjoy black metal...emperor is my favorite band (followed by priest and probably opeth) and emperor is definatley BM, esp on the first two albums. i also enjoy nokturnal mortum, fog, dimmu borgir, immortal, marduk, enslaved, etc etc. what does that make me? a black metal fan. but i really dont care what the underground thinks about it, or what bm purists think, or what all the "i listen to opeth so i'm a superior person" people on this board think about it. i do my own thing without too much concern for what others think...i think you shouldn't let that dude bug you. he's an idiot for saying that and you are an idiot for lettin him bug you about it. he's allowed not to like opeth, just like you're allowed to not like black metal or stupid satanists....

 

[Lina]

"How can anybody be judged on a fraction of the whole to make an opinion on the whole? I love Opeth and the intellect behind it, but other people believe the same about N'Sync." -- metalmancpa

ok, this is exactly my point: if a person thinks n'sync is deep, that person is obviously not very deep themselves.

the reason you love the intellect behind opeth is because there IS intellect behind opeth. (and congrats to you on being able to see it.) all you'll find behind n'sync is five boys who were brought together by a record company because of their looks, who were taught to sing (somewhat) and dance and sell records to impressionable young girls who think whatever MTV tells them is cool, is cool.


"Music theory is just that...a theory...not a fact." -- Zerokelvin

'music theory' is the term for the study of music basically. someone who studies music theory (like myself) is taught the mechanics behind music-writing. music theory trains someone's ear to differentiate between three-chord rock bands and opeth. it teaches the ways in which notes and scales and chords interrelate to each other. it's not a "theory" of what sounds good. it's scientific facts that make up music.

once again, it's not that those scientific facts determine what sounds good in a subjective sense -- like i said, i love lacuna coil, but they aren't good soungwriters in a theory sense. opeth not only "sounds good" to those of us on this board, but they have the musical knowledge to write complex songs. you know how everytime you listen to an opeth song you hear something you didn't hear the first time (hopefully)? that's because there's so much in it. it's not just I, IV, V chords over and over again like everything on the radio.

 

[Zerokelvin]

"it teaches the ways in which notes and scales and chords interrelate to each other. it's not a "theory" of what sounds good. it's scientific facts that make up music. "

This is partly false.
It's not scientific facts, it's a cultural training.

People decided to name those interractions, but people from different culture (West European, Arabic, Asian) have been used to different elements in their music, so that's why music theory doesn't apply to all kinds of music (for example, most percussions don't rely on chords...exept like the xylophone I guess).

And even if it was based on scientific facts (it partly is in the case of harmonic's wavelengths), scientific facts don't make a theory true. A theory tries to explain facts. Like the theory of causality tries to explain while things happen in particular order. In most cases, it works. But it doesn't make it more true. Theories based on facts can be proven false, and that's the main cause of scientific changes. Like when people dwelled into quantum dynamics because regular physics gave impossibilities when treating facts.

I know you can say some kinds of music is more difficult to play than others, like I can see the different difficulty levels in resolving two different differential equations (sorry for different differential...bad luck with words).

Anyway Opeth's ability is not a fact, it's a conclusion based on facts passed into a culturaly-influenced theory that seems to be true.

I don't like having to rely on rationality to say I like something. It's like brussels sprouts...you know it's good for you, yet you don't like being force-fed them.

_Technically_, if I heard something different when I listen to an Opeth song, I would think someone screwed my CD Actually I don't think I hear new things...I hear it all the first time, but I can't feel and analyse it at once. It take multiple listens to understand everything their music is carrying. Still I'm not deaf, I hear it all the first time

 

[Lina]

i understand what you're saying, but I think you just want to argue. i'm simply trying to explain that the term, "music theory" is just that, a TERM, for the study of music. When you say that music theory is just a theory, it sounds like you mean that A is not the relative minor of C, or something like that.

You're saying that it's cultural training that makes music "sound good." I agree with you. But even in Asian music, while it may not be pleasing to Western ears, there are still the same elements of music theory.

Let's just drop this. We're splitting hairs here.

 

[Zerokelvin]

The problem is I love splitting hair
The splittedest the hair, the happier me

When I say it's just a theory, I don't mean that the relationships between the notes don't exist, I just say that overall it's just one way to describe music, and it isn't always useful.

For example, people doing the mixing for albums don't even listen for the notes or anything. All they hear is frequencies. Hertzes.
And basicly frequency is scalar, so it's as complex as, let's say, distance or temperature, but that's from a point of view that has nothing to do with music theory. Yet it can describe music on it's own.