Kemper Profiling Amp

JeffTD said:
Your refining shouldn't be the same every time. Sometimes you'll lack a certain aspect in the profile and you need to play something that focuses on that in the amp for it to get it right.
Click to expand...

I've noticed that, too. Sometimes I've had to play high notes to get it right, sometimes I've played other stuff. Actually, to get the low-end better it seems like it's good to NOT play a bunch of mutes since that seems to take away from the lows. I've tried different techniques though but with the Orange I simply can't get it closer. Maybe I'm pushing the power tubes too hard.

Dissonant chords, I'll try more of that, cheers!
 
Lasse, any idea on when yours is going to come out? The wait has been giving me enough time to make my own awesome profiles, and we definitely don't want me using my own shit when I can just rip off your guitar tone instead.
 
So, an update on my latest findings. (I have a thread over at the Kemper forum too with some more details if anyone's interested).

I recorded some DIs. Chugs, dissonant chords, etc. The results when using these for refining weren't huge. It depended on the amp too, indeed. I then used the same DIs to capture the frequency response from the Kemper vs amp. First up, Orange:

kemper_curves.JPG


Yellow line is Kemper, blue line is amp. The Kemper has way more going on under 90Hz (quite surprised by this). 90-250Hz, a bit less.

Changed the amp, cab and mic just to see if I'd get a similar result. (Here blue is Kemper, white is amp)

kemper_curves2.jpg


Very similar result!

I've then applied this EQ curve to both Kemper tracks:

kemper_eq.JPG


The result is MUCH closer. Not identical of course, but much closer. Now, of course I COULD apply that EQ to my recorded Kemper tracks. What I CAN'T do is to apply it to all my profiles on the Kemper, which I'd find more logical. It'd make more sense to me if the Kemper just "got it right" to begin with, needless to say. Hoping it could be added as an extra feature in a future update. That way it could be applied if wanted/needed, but current users would still get the same profiling results as before.
 
It would be really cool if Kemper could update/refine their profiling function. For those who are into audio engineering the differences are obvious even if the profile comes very close. Especially since it's already so close it can't be that hard to improve the profiling function up to 100% accuracy.
 
I can't deny that i'm starting to feel a bit of GAS concerning the kemper, one thing bugs my mind though

How many of guys tested the thing with a poweramp (ss or tube) and a guitar cab ?

It somehow boggles my mind that you can "detach" the cab module from a profile that was taken from an amp AND a cab.

Makes me think that this device has little in common with convolution, and does it's trickery in a mysterious algorythmical way :D
 
xFkx said:
I can't deny that i'm starting to feel a bit of GAS concerning the kemper, one thing bugs my mind though

How many of guys tested the thing with a poweramp (ss or tube) and a guitar cab ?

It somehow boggles my mind that you can "detach" the cab module from a profile that was taken from an amp AND a cab.

Makes me think that this device has little in common with convolution, and does it's trickery in a mysterious algorythmical way :D
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_WB-Hbwt0
 
Been running the same test a few more times. Moved the cab around, ran the amp really quiet, tried different rooms, etc. Same results.

Would anyone else be interested in running the same kind of test, so we can eliminate the possibility that it's an issue only on my end?

Method: capture profile -> run DI signal to refine -> capture frequency response of the Kemper profile with Ozone or similar -> capture frequency response of the amp (reference) with Ozone or similar -> post a screenshot.
 
tgs said:
Been running the same test a few more times. Moved the cab around, ran the amp really quiet, tried different rooms, etc. Same results.

Would anyone else be interested in running the same kind of test, so we can eliminate the possibility that it's an issue only on my end?

Method: capture profile -> run DI signal to refine -> capture frequency response of the Kemper profile with Ozone or similar -> capture frequency response of the amp (reference) with Ozone or similar -> post a screenshot.
Click to expand...

This has been posted a while ago. The low end being off isn't something new and has been reported by many users already. The character of the midchange sometimes too, just like the high end sounding different depending on the amp.
 
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I think making good profiles is an art and some amps are easier to profile than others.
How the refining is done can play a very big role in the results and the refining is accumulated over time, it can also make it worse.
Looking at an eq curve is one thing, only using your ears in a blind test is another thing.
If there is some missing eq in some cases it works great adding it when A/B comparing. This guy in the video prefers to not refine at all when profiling his EVH5150.

The bottom image shows an eq comparison between a Boogie and the kemper profile made, posted by okstrat on the kemper forum.
It's almost dead on.





1149365_10200721040047580_1707167739_o.jpg
 
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Yes there are plenty of videos and real life situations where people can't hear or feel any difference of a well made kemper profile and the original amp. Here is Mr Lammert's first A/B blind test video comparison between a Mesa and Kemper.

 
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Trevoire520 said:
I love reading posts like this, especially when Lasse posted a blind test and almost no one could guess when it flipped between the real amp and kemper.
Click to expand...

I listened to Lasse's blind test and I could not hear a single difference/switch. It might have been the amp or the refining method that made the profile so accurate. The profiling doesn't seem to be that close most of the time.
 
All points are duly noted, but to clarify: what I'm trying to get at here is that what I've found so far is that I'm getting the SAME discrepancy. Different amps, different cabs, different mics, different rooms. That's why I'd like to see others try to replicate my findings. If the results are the same, then the problem is UNIFORM, and can probably be addressed in a future update from Kemper or something. If you cannot replicate the results, it means the problem is on my end and I'll need to do some more troubleshooting.

I'll check out Lasse's clips. However: did the Kemper signal get any further processing to get it closer to the amp, or is it the same processing on the tracks?

By the way, here's the frequency response using pink noise:

pinknoise.jpg
 
Thanks for your efforts tgs! Hopefully CK will look into the profiling algorithm and release an update that will improve it to 100% profiling accuracy. There's not much missing to reach 100% anyway.
 
I had similar results with ozone but since I normally cut around the same range recording wasn't a huge deal to me.
Or I would just up the bass a little
 
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