Keyboards....Mixing problems...

[Coraje]

Hi everyone, specially Andy...

I'm currently working on a Black metal EP by a local band and i can't get those keyboards mixed right...

The problem is that they are very interesting keyboard lines, they just don't follow the guitars(very heavy sound, not the trebly and thin black metal riffs), very dynamic stuff but sometimes i can't get them through the mix, i tried some compression and it started to work but i noticed that they were becoming dull, lifeless, and started to sound a little thin.... What's your take on the matter??? should i try some EQ, or is there some panning "trick" i could do...??

Thanks for the help, this board has been very helpful to me....

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

the way i do it is have a final mix of all the other instruments completed, drums, guitars, bass, vox bounced to one stereo track. i'll then look for a few frequencies to cut on that final mix that won't too drastically affect the main instruments. just slivers, really, maybe a real big Q and only a dB or two cut.

throw the keyboards on a new track and experiment with boosting those frequencies that you can cut on your main tracks. see what sounds good and choose one frequency to cut on your final mix and then boost it on the keyboards. just give a little sliver of eq for the keyboards to breath through, you know?

also, i always roll off a lot of low end on the EQ for keyboards to prevent muddiness. usually on strings and horns and shit this doesn't hurt the sound too much. don't forget keyboards are usually going to be background stuff, unless it is like an intro in which case you want the low end there.

whatever, that's just my experience and my keyboards usually sound pretty decent.

remember this: if you watch the "the Haunted" dvd, fred nordstrom says mixing is "all about compromise." In otherwords, the keyboards will sound better if everything else sounds worse.

Of course, you can just pull an In Flames (either of the last two albums) and hear that the keyboards don't cut through the mix much, at least not compared to maybe Dimmu or Cradle of Filth. Personally, I can't really think of an album that has crystal clear keyboards while still having really fat guitar and drums. I don't think it can be done. Lately, I've definitely just said fuck it let it be muddy. It sounds kinda cool sometimes when you can't really tell whats going on. It works for In flames.

 

[Cooperman]

I've only ever mixed one song with keys. It was an instrumental track which ended up having quite a few overdubbed tracks - bass, 4 acoustic guitar, 4 lead/harmony guitar, and then about 6 overdubbed keyboard tracks featuring chordal strings, melody strings, flute, piano, brass, percussion. There was a lot of mid-rangey instruments to try fit in to the same space yet still retain the dynamics of the track.

The solution I found was with a bit of careful panning of all these layers, each track found its space in the mix. Not sure if it was a fluke just with that particular song, but that's what worked for me.

 

[Andy Sneap]

yeah keyboards are difficult to get right, usually because the freq range is so wide. Listen to each sound you are using, do you need that much low, high on each?? Get filtering.

Its an age old problem with mixing, Frederick is right.
Think about Led Zep for example, everyone goes on about the Bohnam drum sound, but it only sounded big because the gtrs were so thin. Everything relates in a mix.
Infact, the sounds may not be that good on their own, but can work together great.
When you start throwing unfiltered keys into your mix it will soak up every freq, thats why alot of people prefer the older more bitty mid rangey sounds like the emu and melotron.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

In "home recording for dummies" the author (i can't remember his name) reveals something else about Bonham's secret to the fat drums...he says Bonham played the symbols real quiet and with a lot of finesse.

When I told my own drummer this his reply was, "do you think that 2 liter of coke in the corner is too old to mix with my rum?"