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Saber Rider
Opeth liker
This man says it all.The Greys said:
Deliverance > you all
@topic
My arms, your hearse by far.
Shitty production, worst songwriting. At least the Booklet is neat.
deliverance
ecnareviled
Saber Rider said:
WRONG. try again. you and trey are the only 2 who think it is terrible.
MAYH is great..lay off the crack.
Jonsii
New Metal Member
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
The Greys said:
God, I'd hoped I'd never have to do this again.. but these threads just keep popping up.
Classic riffs? I don't understand. Does the fact that a riff loops for 50% of a song instantly give it 'classic' status? Is it the fact that all you have to identify songs with is certain trademark riffs, simply because the the overall thematic feel or dynamic of a song is lacklustre at best? The intro riff of Master's Apprentice... the ending to Deliverance... the carousel part in BTPISIO... why are they memorable? Because the album as a whole isn't.
'It has alot of stuff but is not aimless'.
MAYH and Still Life have plenty more 'stuff' and being concepts, I'd say they are far less aimless than any of the albums that came before or after. Deliverance may not seem aimless because it's so stupendously simple. Most of those songs could have easily been cut to 50% of their length, seeing how many times each part is repeated. It's alot easier to structure songs when you're dealing with simpler arrangements.
'It's more to the point than any other Opeth offering without sacrificing elements and atmosphere.'
What do you mean? It sacrifices virtually everything in its attempt at being more concise and cohesive than the others. The only 'atmosphere' that's added is the few production tricks ol' Stevie boy put on it to stop you ramming your head into the wall from the monotony of the entire thing. It certainly has sacrificed elements. Where MAYH and SL had insane amounts of guitar parts seamlessly entwining, Deliverance usually has one catchy riff looped ad nauseum. Although if you're a Doom fan, I guess I could see how you'd find 'one riff = one song' to be great.
'It flows from start to finish with no bullshit at all'
'Bullshit' being interesting songwriting.
'The tribal drum section on 'Wreath' to the last four minutes in the song 'Deliverance' Opeth is treading new grounds'
Yes, because Opeth invented tribal drumming, and Meshuggah never existed.
'Why people say it is their worst is beyond me.'
Because it is.
'Deliverance rocks out harder than anything they have done and is refreshing. '
How is it refreshing? It's a solid regression from everything they've done before that point. In some desperate attempt at tighter song cohesion they've sacrificed all the depth and musicality that made them 'OPETH'. Or at least, the Opeth I learned to love.
'Some of you need to stop being pussies and check your ears.'
Yes, because I've noticed that there's a direct correlation between how 'hard' a person's opinion of themselves is and how downright idiotic their opinion of music can be.
Saber Rider
Opeth liker
*tries again*<crimson> said:
.................sorry, it's MAYH again.
We're talking about the least favorite Album and not "the album that really sucks". So, yeah, there are some decent trakcs on MAYH but it fails compared to the other Opeth albums.
@Moonlapse
Don't you think that this is even more idiotic?
Who the hell are you to judge which opinion of music is right and wrong?
It's all a matter of taste and there's simply no accounting for taste.
Also the riff-repeating- thing...
I like it better than random melody changes.
Nico
Onward!
Arnold Layne
Member
Décadent said:
And good doom isnt boring or repetative (for a bad attempt at doom check out dave grouls song with the guy from cathedral, really shit). I love the live ending of a faid judgement, classic doom.
NFU
I like pie.
moonlapse, your post was fairly organized and well thought out most of the time. but implying that doom is just one riff songs...is pretty ignorant and stupid. just so you know. quite a few candlemass songs have even more riffs than some opeth songs.
Personally to me 'Still Life' is Opeth's most repetitive album lacking riffs. The album goes nowhere except 'Serenity Painted Dead' and 'White Cluster'. The album should have been all acoustic. The acoustics are not even that great either. I'm constantly waiting for a riffs,solos,harmonies on that album. They never apear, the songs are always in break, pick up somewhere please. It has no flow, groove and is boring. The cleans and growling vocals are much better on Deliverance too. Everythings better from guitar to drums.
This is why 'Deliverance' is better than Still Life.
Master's Apprentices (2:04 to 7:53). At 7:53 showing the greatest part in an Opeth song ever.
Wreath: (6:39 to 9:50) (0:44 to 1:12)
Deliverance: (4:43 to the end of the song)
By The Pain I See In Others: (0:00 to 0:53) (3:05 to 3:33). The first 53 seconds in this song is better than any opening on 'Still Life'.
Every moment on 'Deliverance' is great
Deliverance > Still Life
Blackwater Park > Still Life
My Arms, Your Hearse > Still Life
The stuff I've heard from Orchid and Morning Rise > Still Life.
I will give 'Still Life' another shot but that's it. I really think you did a shitty job listening to 'Deliverance' and should give it one more listen.
I never said Opeth invented tribal drumming either you moron. I said they are treading new grounds as it's something new for the band, that I've never heard tribal drumming from them before that. What does Meshuggah have anything to do with the tribal drumming on 'Wreath'. Meshuggah did not invent tribal drumming either so what do they have to do with tribal drumming on 'Wreath'
Do you even know jackshit about anything ?
Do you even look into metal and other music styles. Or just an Opeth fanboy moron. If so fuck right off
This is why 'Deliverance' is better than Still Life.
Master's Apprentices (2:04 to 7:53). At 7:53 showing the greatest part in an Opeth song ever.
Wreath: (6:39 to 9:50) (0:44 to 1:12)
Deliverance: (4:43 to the end of the song)
By The Pain I See In Others: (0:00 to 0:53) (3:05 to 3:33). The first 53 seconds in this song is better than any opening on 'Still Life'.
Every moment on 'Deliverance' is great
Deliverance > Still Life
Blackwater Park > Still Life
My Arms, Your Hearse > Still Life
The stuff I've heard from Orchid and Morning Rise > Still Life.
I will give 'Still Life' another shot but that's it. I really think you did a shitty job listening to 'Deliverance' and should give it one more listen.
I never said Opeth invented tribal drumming either you moron. I said they are treading new grounds as it's something new for the band, that I've never heard tribal drumming from them before that. What does Meshuggah have anything to do with the tribal drumming on 'Wreath'. Meshuggah did not invent tribal drumming either so what do they have to do with tribal drumming on 'Wreath'
Do you even know jackshit about anything ?
Do you even look into metal and other music styles. Or just an Opeth fanboy moron. If so fuck right off
Still Life is the best by far. I never knew that Still Life haters existed until this thread. Every song just oozes magic and atmosphere. There is something mysterious and captivating about it. Deliverance sounds too sterile and to me it doesn't have that Opeth 'mystique'. Deliverance is quality music but it just lacks the almost spiritual undertones that I get from Still Life.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Sorry to Doom fans. I got pissed off when I was writing that post and swept a few generalisations left and right.
Usually when we deal with music, alot of it is inquantifiable, and therefore a bit futile to argue. That's why I find it really refreshing when I see a shining beacon of idiocy, like the excerpt above.
... Sure, Still Life is where they started bringing riffs back into a song and repeating 'choruses'. I have NO idea how you go from that point to calling it their most repetitive when Deliverance clearly is.
I'm almost tempted to bet you, that one Still Life track, if all of its overdubs counted as riffs all of their own, would eclipse Deliverance in sheer quantity of riffs. Almost. But an exaggeration will do
:zombie:. Are we talking about the same album here?
I could almost understand what you were saying, were you not contrasting it to Deliverance, which shouldn't only 'have been all acoustic', but should have never existed. Where the acoustic parts were 'Damnation leftovers not worth using', and where the leads generally consist of 3 notes with some really REALLY KVLT wooshy effect Stevie placed on em.
It's kind of funny though. You say that Still Life is the most boring, repetitive/lacking leads etc. Yet you cite 'White Cluster' as one of the exceptions... the track that IS the most repetitive and has the least leads on the album. I'm starting to think you're not even overly sure of what you're saying.
Scratching the first two albums, Still Life is their most rich in lead work. I mean c'mon man, how many do you want?
-The intro to Moonlapse Vertigo
-The 2nd riff in Moonlapse Vertigo
-The intro to Godhead's Lament
-The 2nd heavy riff in The Moor
-The intro to Serenity Painted Death
-The 2nd riff to Serenity
-2:47 of Serenity
-The masterful lead/rhythm combo that breaks out subsequently in Serenity and should be emblazoned as a testament for all time as to how great metal music can sound.
There, that's just a few.
Do you mean the production, or the actual song-writing? Remember, Andy Sneap DID mix Deliverance, and Steve Wilson DID produce it. Still Life was hardly done with the status Opeth currently enjoy in the metal(/musical?) world.
Yes.... because somehow we managed to establish that, using your subjectivity as a spearhead.
Album X > Album Y doesn't tell us much apart from that you have a rudimentary grasp of mathematics. Nothing you'd said up to that point establishes your point, or gets even close to be an objective analysis of either album.
'The drums r better d00d'
'The vox r better d00d'
'Its less boring d00d'
'It should haf been all acoustic d00d'
Wow, how can someone argue with that.
Go for it, I'd really recommend it. Don't let what I've been sayin in here give you a bitter taste when you listen to the album though. Take the time... go to bed, put on some nice cans and listen to it in its entirety and let it all sink in. I hated Emperor's Prometheus until I realized what a tool I've been all those years.
I've listened to Deliverance plenty of times, believe me. It only sounds worse and worse on each consecutive listen to me. So instead of wearing it into something that I utterly despise, I'll leave it at something that I hate (which is funny... when these threads started popping up, I 'liked' it, yet less than the others, then moved into being indifferent about it... and now we're here).
About Meshuggah... I was reffering to the end of Deliverance. You weren't very clear about the point that you were saying it's 'treading new ground AS FAR AS OPETH IS CONCERNED'. As far as they are concerned, sure, it's the first time I recall bongos on their album. Yeah, it's the first time I recall them not only looping one riff for in excess of 3 minutes, but one chord too... nice.
Dunno. I s'pose the band do, since they have me looking after this place.
Well I haven't solidly listened to Opeth in months, but sure, I'll play into the part of your cozy stereotype. If it gives you a better grasp of what you perceive that I'm about, or a better angle of attack, sure... I'm the biggest fanboy there ever was, which is why I can openly speak against their albums... heh.
Usually when we deal with music, alot of it is inquantifiable, and therefore a bit futile to argue. That's why I find it really refreshing when I see a shining beacon of idiocy, like the excerpt above.
... Sure, Still Life is where they started bringing riffs back into a song and repeating 'choruses'. I have NO idea how you go from that point to calling it their most repetitive when Deliverance clearly is.
I'm almost tempted to bet you, that one Still Life track, if all of its overdubs counted as riffs all of their own, would eclipse Deliverance in sheer quantity of riffs. Almost. But an exaggeration will do
:zombie:. Are we talking about the same album here?
I could almost understand what you were saying, were you not contrasting it to Deliverance, which shouldn't only 'have been all acoustic', but should have never existed. Where the acoustic parts were 'Damnation leftovers not worth using', and where the leads generally consist of 3 notes with some really REALLY KVLT wooshy effect Stevie placed on em.
It's kind of funny though. You say that Still Life is the most boring, repetitive/lacking leads etc. Yet you cite 'White Cluster' as one of the exceptions... the track that IS the most repetitive and has the least leads on the album. I'm starting to think you're not even overly sure of what you're saying.
Scratching the first two albums, Still Life is their most rich in lead work. I mean c'mon man, how many do you want?
-The intro to Moonlapse Vertigo
-The 2nd riff in Moonlapse Vertigo
-The intro to Godhead's Lament
-The 2nd heavy riff in The Moor
-The intro to Serenity Painted Death
-The 2nd riff to Serenity
-2:47 of Serenity
-The masterful lead/rhythm combo that breaks out subsequently in Serenity and should be emblazoned as a testament for all time as to how great metal music can sound.
There, that's just a few.
Do you mean the production, or the actual song-writing? Remember, Andy Sneap DID mix Deliverance, and Steve Wilson DID produce it. Still Life was hardly done with the status Opeth currently enjoy in the metal(/musical?) world.
Yes.... because somehow we managed to establish that, using your subjectivity as a spearhead.
Album X > Album Y doesn't tell us much apart from that you have a rudimentary grasp of mathematics. Nothing you'd said up to that point establishes your point, or gets even close to be an objective analysis of either album.
'The drums r better d00d'
'The vox r better d00d'
'Its less boring d00d'
'It should haf been all acoustic d00d'
Wow, how can someone argue with that.
Go for it, I'd really recommend it. Don't let what I've been sayin in here give you a bitter taste when you listen to the album though. Take the time... go to bed, put on some nice cans and listen to it in its entirety and let it all sink in. I hated Emperor's Prometheus until I realized what a tool I've been all those years.
I've listened to Deliverance plenty of times, believe me. It only sounds worse and worse on each consecutive listen to me. So instead of wearing it into something that I utterly despise, I'll leave it at something that I hate (which is funny... when these threads started popping up, I 'liked' it, yet less than the others, then moved into being indifferent about it... and now we're here).
About Meshuggah... I was reffering to the end of Deliverance. You weren't very clear about the point that you were saying it's 'treading new ground AS FAR AS OPETH IS CONCERNED'. As far as they are concerned, sure, it's the first time I recall bongos on their album. Yeah, it's the first time I recall them not only looping one riff for in excess of 3 minutes, but one chord too... nice.
Dunno. I s'pose the band do, since they have me looking after this place.
Well I haven't solidly listened to Opeth in months, but sure, I'll play into the part of your cozy stereotype. If it gives you a better grasp of what you perceive that I'm about, or a better angle of attack, sure... I'm the biggest fanboy there ever was, which is why I can openly speak against their albums... heh.
R0l0
lol @ opeth tattoos
Wow; how anyone can place Deliverance over Still Life is beyond me-- not only that but to say Still Life is boring and their worst work to date almost seems ridiculous. To each their own I suppose.
It's funny that being open to other genres of music is mentioned though because as far as comparing those two albums goes, Still Life is much more diverse in terms that it has more elements of folk, jazz, and progressive rock. Deliverance on the other hand is perhaps the band's most death-metal oriented album to date.
Overall I think its a pretty good album but there are moments that sound somewhat "fake" or "forced" to me-- repetitive riffs, trying to sound overly soft or heavy, and parts of songs generally not flowing together smoothly. The only area in which I see it sticking out from the rest of the catalogue is that the production is superb.
It's funny that being open to other genres of music is mentioned though because as far as comparing those two albums goes, Still Life is much more diverse in terms that it has more elements of folk, jazz, and progressive rock. Deliverance on the other hand is perhaps the band's most death-metal oriented album to date.
Overall I think its a pretty good album but there are moments that sound somewhat "fake" or "forced" to me-- repetitive riffs, trying to sound overly soft or heavy, and parts of songs generally not flowing together smoothly. The only area in which I see it sticking out from the rest of the catalogue is that the production is superb.
If you want progressive, folky and jazzy listen to Morningrise, those elements on that album blow SL out of the water. SL and Deliverance seem to me to be more about the metal. I guess it's what ever you prefer, I for one like prog and music with many twists and turns over straight up metal.
NFU
I like pie.
Trey Parker said:
candlemass, saint vitus, trouble, black sabbath, evoken, solitude aeturnus, esoteric, skepticism, earth, schaliach, october tide, my dying bride, etc.
NFU
I like pie.
R0l0
lol @ opeth tattoos
True, though I was comparing SL with D1 alone... can't say I remember hearing much jazz in Morningrise though. And as far as liking prog over metal goes: likewise, but I wouldn't be here if I didn't like metal in the first place.shark22 said:
byrne
Certavi et vici
Morningrise > Orchid > BWP > Still Life > MAYH > Damnation > Deliverance
Everyone knows Deliverance is the most basic and repetitve of all the Opeth albums (and if you don't you are deaf and stupid), regardless of whether you think its the best or worst.
Everyone knows Deliverance is the most basic and repetitve of all the Opeth albums (and if you don't you are deaf and stupid), regardless of whether you think its the best or worst.
