Least favourite song from Iconoclast

[Kuros]

I love Bastards of The Machine - the verses are groovy as hell! It's strange to me how Prometheus gets more love.

 

[maestro41]

I almost never pay attention to lyrics either, and perceive vocals as just a melody as well.
I've just recently attempted to pay closer attention to lyrics because they can elevate a song to even greater heights.

+1

 

[maestro41]

Yes, I agree. Russell's voice is amazing, almost regardless of what he is singing about. I'd prefer deeper lyrics, but if I'm looking for something deep I generally am not trying to find it in lyrics to music anyway. If you want something intellectual or deep, read a book or an essay or watch a great visual production.

I see your point but also encourage a listen to The Odyssey.

 

[chriscc]

I see your point but also encourage a listen to The Odyssey.

Yes, the lyrics to the Odyssey are very high quality in my opinion, at least for what they are trying to communicate.

But "deepness" it is a matter of degree. You simply cannot develop ideas, characters, relationships, or anything too deeply if you are limited to a relative handful of words set to music. The Odyssey lyrics have "only" ~700 words, fewer if you remove the repetition. A skilled author can do much more with tens or hundreds of thousands of words, which is simply not feasible in a musical composition like this. Or think of a video production where each picture is worth a thousand words. (OK, that last comment was bad, but you get the point.)

Sure, there is some synergy between the music and the lyrics that reduce the number of words required to portray some of the same ideas, but can it make up for having fewer words/pictures/etc. by a factor of 1000?

Another thing to keep in mind about Odyssey lyrics is that they borrow heavily from the original works of Homer. Homer's work contained 12110 lines. Symphony X were able to portray many of the same ideas in much fewer words because we are familiar with the original. They did a brilliant job. Michael Romeo said it himself: "The story of Odysseus’ journey painted a huge mental picture that, eventually, transformed itself into the music."

Can you imagine this: What if Symphony X instead wrote that song about some ancient Chinese epic that is equally as complex, exciting, emotional, etc. but none of us knew anything about it. I'm not saying that it would completely change the song, but I suspect that it would diminish my perception of the ideas communicated by the song. (Can you hear it: "Triumphant Champion of Guangzhou".)

I've heard that Symphony X always writes the music first, and then the lyrics follow. I think that makes them an afterthought, by definition. It would seem that the "deepness" of the lyrics are handicapped right out of the gate. I personally could not imagine writing the music first and then trying to compose lyrics to the music, but I'm not talented like these guys.

(For those who want to argue that "deepness" is subjective, I agree, but unless we agree that there is some objective metric for information content or whatever, then the whole discussion is meaningless and bit like religion.)

 

[PrgrsveMetalnChains]

I've heard that Symphony X always writes the music first, and then the lyrics follow. I think that makes them an afterthought, by definition. It would seem that the "deepness" of the lyrics are handicapped right out of the gate. I personally could not imagine writing the music first and then trying to compose lyrics to the music, but I'm not talented like these guys.

You heard correctly...Russell said it again in a recent interview talking of the making of the album. I find it to be both good and bad. In writing lyrics for songs I find writing lyrics before the music gives you a sense of where to go musically and how hard or aggressive you want the track to be. Its definitely easier to write lyrics afterward for me though. Music is in place...all you have to do is slap some words on it and presto! A song.

The band does a great job either way...almost every song they have is gold.

 

[Marwen]

I've heard that Symphony X always writes the music first, and then the lyrics follow. I think that makes them an afterthought, by definition. It would seem that the "deepness" of the lyrics are handicapped right out of the gate. I personally could not imagine writing the music first and then trying to compose lyrics to the music, but I'm not talented like these guys.

I for one feel the music should come first. This is probably because I'm more of a music person than a literature person. But even with that bias aside, I think what should come first is what's more important and, with music, it seems natural to me that the music itself is more "important" than the words. This is not to justify sub-par lyrics however.

Also, just to be clear, Symphony X does not just write the music and then write the lyrics to the music. They usually decide on a theme, write the music to that theme, and then write the lyrics to the theme+music.

 

[EyeballKid]

I for one feel the music should come first. This is probably because I'm more of a music person than a literature person. But even with that bias aside, I think what should come first is what's more important and, with music, it seems natural to me that the music itself is more "important" than the words. This is not to justify sub-par lyrics however.

Since they are forced to work within the constraints of pre-written music, it does kind of justify bad lyrics. If the music is done, recorded, finished - the vocals have to be wedged in there.

Personally, I think this is the worst way to compose. As previously stated, it makes the lyrics a complete afterthought. The music is generally considered to be more important in metal, however, so most bands don't see this as an issue. I think starting with the music, getting an idea of where the song is going, and then writing lyrics concurrently is the best way to go - that way you can mold both the lyrics and music together and everything sounds more organic.

 

[d0mino_rox]

Prometheus (I Am Alive), with the closest after being Bastards of the Machine. They just don't click with me as much as the rest of the album.