Let's talk wrasslin'

[DE4life]

Looks like the talent cuts have begun. So far:

Mustafa Ali - A couple of years ago he was begging to be let go, now he's finally got his wish. I actually think Ali had a lot of upside and some interesting ideas for his character, but it was obvious WWE never really saw him as anything other than a jobber. His time as leader of the godawful Retribution stable was just bizarre.

Emma - Not even sure why they brought her back, as she's done absolutely nothing.

Rick Boogs - Great look, but I found him far more annoying than endearing. With the right creative and guidance I think he has a big upside though, so I expect he'll do well wherever he lands next.

Aliyah - Had forgotten she was there.

Elias - Huge charisma factor, seems perfect for WWE. Weird that they seem to have completely gone off him over the past couple of years. He's never been particularly interesting in the ring, but he's a great character outside of it.

Riddick Moss - Eh, he's okay but never really established himself. His run as 'Madcap' alongside Corbin was some of the dumbest shit in recent memory.

Top Dolla - Pretty terrible, so no loss. Hit Row have been dead in the water since they returned, as Swerve was the glue that held that group together, and Cole has been mercilessly burying Top Dolla on commentary for months.

Shelton Benjamin - Someone call his momma. Shelton's still a solid performer but doesn't really have much charisma or mic skills, which limits what he can do.

Dolph Ziggler - Barely been used for years now, so not really a surprise. Will be interesting to see if he heads to AEW to join his brother.

Apparently there are also some NXT cuts coming, not that I really know anyone from NXT these days.

In other news, Smackdown is leaving FOX and returning to USA - sounds like USA are willing to pay even higher rights fees for Smackdown, whereas FOX was not. Sounds like FOX lost significant money with Smackdown and have cut their losses accordingly. Interestingly it sounds like as a result of acquiring Smackdown, USA will not renew Raw or NXT, and those shows will be on the lookout for a new network.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, none of the releases so far are surprising. I expect more main roster cuts too. There’s no way they’ve hit their quota yet. Ali is extremely talented and he really didn’t get a fair shake. The rest… well, it sucks but most were expected. There’s a lot they could’ve done with Elias outside of the ring because he’s a great talker and really entertaining. Just having him as an on-air personality would’ve worked well imo. As a heel, he’s able to generate pretty massive amounts of heat.

When you mentioned how you don’t know anyone in NXT, I was like… huh, I don’t really either. I know names, but I just don’t follow it so I know practically nothing about them. And I think they know many people are the same, which is why they’re using main roster talent on their show on a regular basis.

 

[DE4life]

It seems so. It's a shame as a few years ago I knew everybody on NXT, but since it rebraded especially I've had zero interest in it as a product.

 

[DE4life]

Matt Riddle is gone from WWE - probably not a surprise considering the personal issues he's been having recently. He was also not popular within UFC, so once the takeover happened it was always likely he'd be gone if there was enough reason to get rid, and he's certainly given them enough reasons lately.

Personally I never cared much for Riddle. Much like Boogs, I find him more irritating than endearing from a character perspective, and his in-ring work was neutered on the main roster compared to his NXT run.

 

[The Grayfox]

Matt Riddle's release didn't phase me one bit. It doesn't seem that it was related to the roster cuts but probably more related to his airport incident being the last straw. If the roster cuts are now done, there actually wasn't a ton of shocking releases. People seemed shocked by Ziggler but I can't even remember the last time he was on TV. He's a mechanic though -- he's very good at a lot of stuff. If one person goes to AEW from this, I hope it's him because he may finally get his due. Ali could be that guy as well. But Ziggler is a guy anyone should want on their roster, for multiple reasons. I think his time in WWE was just up. They failed to pull the trigger on him so many times. When he was really over in 2012/2013 and they gave him the short world title run, they failed him. They didn't do it right and he was stagnant up until Survivor Series when Sting debuted and Ziggler got the big win. I thought for sure they were finally going to give him his due and then they just... didn't.

I am surprised that Karrion Kross, The Good Brothers and Corbin made it through this. Especially Corbin. The Good Brothers make sense I guess if you consider that AJ is probably going to bat for them and he was supposedly really pissed when they released them a few years ago. And I thought for sure Kross was gone. The dude kind of sucks. His in-ring work is mediocre at best, his moveset is lame and he's a right-wing conspiracy nut. The only thing going for him is his Jesse Ventura impression, which if you haven't heard it, you should look that up.

 

[DE4life]

Yeah, they had a lot of chances to make Ziggler but never went with it. It was baffling how they'd come so close to going all in on him (particularly with his successful cash-in in 2013 and the spotlight being put on him at Survivor Series 2014) but quickly backed off almost as soon as they started building his momentum. He has shown he has the chops on the mic, has a good look and can work with the best of them. He's clearly one of those guys Vince never saw as "the guy" and so he ended up repeatedly butting his head against the good old glass ceiling. His feud with Miz during Smackdown's epic late-2016 run was good as well, but he ended it looking like a dork. He then later won the US title, only to give it up two days later and disappear. This storyline led nowhere as he randomly returned as the surprise #30 entrant at the 2018 rumble, got eliminated, and that was that.

He's been badly in need of an update to his theme song for at least 8 years now. Just another indication that WWE really never cared that much about him.

I think he still has a lot left in the tank, so it'd be great to see him get a chance to shine in AEW. On the other hand, AEW already has a lot of WWE underutilised mid-carders and has gone on to continue to underutilise them, so would it work? I'm not sure.

Feels like Corbin has built a lot of credit within WWE, which might be why he was spared. The Good Brothers still being around is indeed pretty baffling, but as you say, maybe they are benefiting from being friends with AJ. Kross should never have been brought back in the first place. Scarlett has potential but needs to be moved away from Kross.

 

[The Grayfox]

I think it's basically confirmed that Edge is showing up at the AEW PPV on Sunday. They announced that the main event is going to be Darby Allin vs. Christian...

Funny how people over on r/sc are justifying it by saying that because there isn't an AEW world title match, the TNT title is the next title in line, so it means nothing. Really? On a card that has Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr, people really think they would put Darby vs. Christian as the last match if something big wasn't going to happen? Absolutely nothing is going to convince me that this isn't being done because of Edge lol

You know what would be cool? If Tony Khan stopped doing exactly what TNA did and stops bringing over ex-WWE stars to main event his shows and instead actually made some good homegrown AEW stars. It's seriously starting to feel like TNA did; just shows filled with ex-WWE guys.

 

[DE4life]

I can understand Tony wanting to bring a name like Edge in - especially with his history with Christian. I just hope it doesn't overshadow Christian's great work in AEW. On the whole though Edge is a big name, a good reputation boost for AEW and maybe Tony sees it as a replacement of sorts for Punk. Generally speaking I'm OK with Edge coming in, as he can still go and it would be cool to see him and Christian on the same show again. Edge is also by all accounts a good guy and won't cause problems in the locker room. Basically I can see the benefits in bringing in a legit main eventer with star power like Edge - it could be a hefty boost for AEW in Canada as well. Edge Vs Jericho or Omega would be a pretty big all-Canadian main event.

However, I also saw some speculation that Shelton Benjamin is being considered to come in as well, and that's where I'd be saying no. You have enough talent as it is, you don't need a WWE lower-carder at the end of their career. Absolutely nothing against Shelton, but he isn't bringing anything to AEW that isn't already there. It'd just be an additional body on a roster that is already too large. Shelton would be better off somewhere lke Impact which can always benefit from a little name recognition and a solid hand.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, I'm just not really feeling it I guess. I think the Edge character is cool, but if I'm being honest, I don't really give a shit about Adam Copeland in AEW. And really, I don't think anyone short of an actual "megastar" is going to be push AEW into the next tier. I've pretty much given up on it at this point. I know I'm probably in the minority when it comes to actual wrestling, but I'm just not interested in all the crossover with NJPW, ROH, Impact and AAA talent getting shuffled around. Everything feels like it lacks cohesion in AEW. Every time I watch it I'm left thinking 'this is a fucking mess.' Injuries run rampant because people are more interested in making wrestling look as real as possible, even though we all fucking know it isn't real. People are getting injured left and right over there, so Edge better be careful. Having matches with Christian and Jericho, guys like that, yeah, he'll be fine.

I think it was Meltzer who put out a report earlier that some of the ex-WWE guys in AEW see going there as a mistake and are wanting to go back to WWE. Probably easy to guess who those people are. I would wager that we see Keith Lee, Malakai Black, Buddy Matthews and Andrade back in WWE at some point -- basically the people who have partners/spouses who work there.

 

[DE4life]

I don't really watch AEW regularly outside of the PPVs anymore so it's difficult to me to say at this point how well they're integrating talent, but the crossovers have done nothing for me either. It just feels like it's diluted AEW's brand to the point where it's become the Global Force Wrestling idea that Jeff Jarrett had back in 2015/2016. There's obviously a market for it, but it feels like it's a limited ceiling which AEW has already hit. Edge in of himself is not going to move the needle for AEW. I think the only non-CM Punk active wrestler who could do that would be Roman Reigns. In terms of part-timers Cena, Rock and Austin would probably give them a boost for a while as well, but there is zero chance of any of those three turning up in AEW any time soon.

I think the problem with a lot of the ex-WWE guys brought in is that they haven't really been pushed very strongly. Basically none of them are in a significantly better position than they were in when with WWE - so why would you want to be in that position in the #2 company when you could essentially be in the same spot in the #1 company? It comes back to AEW's roster simply being too bloated.

Another guy who is probably coming in is Dolph Ziggler - and I foresee the same issues. He's not going to be in the main event picture, so it's just another mid-card guy coming in to do mid-card stuff, and they have enough of that kind of talent already. They're at a point now where they don't need to add minor name recognition, especially when it isn't going to do a thing for buyrates or ratings. There needs to be an element of business thinking that's applied to signings now, rather than the mark mindset of 'oh it'd be so cool to see [ex-WWE wrestler] in AEW'. Whatever plan they have to build from here, it shouldn't involve further adding to an already large roster with names that aren't going to do anything to move the company forward in key metrics.

 

[The Grayfox]

The bloated roster is a big problem. And when you add talent from other companies, it does them no favors. You’ve got people on the sidelines while others from NJPW are brought in taking their spots. That would be fine if your roster is small, but it isn’t. And odds are there are people on the roster who aren’t being used that want to go work elsewhere, but they’re tied down by their contracts and can’t do that. The same stupid shit WWE does. Bruce Prichard used to say that in the 80’s/early 90’s, Vince’s philosophy was “if you’re not happy here, leave.” Now the companies just hold people hostage because they don’t want them to go anywhere else. When you really break that down, it’s pretty fucked up.

 

[The Grayfox]

Much to the surprise of no one, Adam Copeland is All Elite

 

[DE4life]

Overall I thought Wrestledream was a good show, albeit I was a bit disconnected as I didn't know too much about the characters/storylines going in.

I don't know who The Righteous are - seems like a Wyatt Family ripoff? - but anyway I'm never a huge fan of a singles wrestler going over a tag team clean in a handicap match. For me it just weakens the tag team in question significantly.

Kingston and Shibata had a simple story and it was a good match. I liked this one.

Statlander and Hart I skipped to the end as I didn't really care.

The multi-man tag was... a multi-man tag. I guess it was fine but the Young Bucks winning didn't do much for me. Not sure how it really progresses anything to have yet another Bucks vs FTR match, but whatever. Lucha Bros have been criminally underutilised in AEW for years now.

Swerve and Hangman another one I didn't care that much about, but the match itself was fine and Prince Nana is pretty entertaining. Swerve is solid too.

I love Ricky Starks but Wheeler Yuta is just the job guy from BCC, so there was no doubt as to who was going over. Didn't seem like the crowd cared much for this one either.

Danielson and Zack Sabre Jr had a fantastic match, although I haven't really seen any of ZSJ's work beforehand. If this really is Danielson's final full-time year then he's going out with a bang.

The six-man tag was a spotfest, kind of fun but I'm a bit desensitised to all of these multi-man matches AEW has. They all feel the same in that they have a bunch of flippy spots and action, but little in the way of storyline progression.

FTR and Aussie Open was an okay tag match, but another one where the result was never in doubt which always makes the match less interesting. I also don't know much about Aussie Open.

Darby and Christian had a good match and made it worthy of being the main event. The heel turn at the end by Nick Wayne was a groaner for me - so choreographed and obvious. Darby is evidently following in Sting's footsteps of being a dipshit face who can't see an obvious betrayal coming.

As far as Edge/Adam Copeland's debut was concerned - it was well done. I'm not sure the intro video was really necessary, but it's obviously nice that Edge was able to bring his Metalingus theme over to AEW. His entrance was basically an exact carbon copy of his WWE entrance, down to the steam and pyro. I thought AEW's production team could have done a better job of focusing on the crowd reaction, as we saw very little of it due to the focus almost solely being on Edge. Very weird to see Edge on a non-WWE show, as up until this point he's been a WWE lifer. I thought Christian sold Edge's arrival really well with his facial expression. The heel tease into an immediate face turn was predictable, but I didn't mind it.

It seems like they were setting up for a Christian/Edge feud for the TNT title. It obviously doesn't help much with the WWE-lite accusations, but it could be interesting.

 

[DE4life]

Notes from Copeland's part of the post-show scrum:

- Khan says that Adam Copeland is signed full time and is working a full time schedule. Interesting as WWE definitely only saw him in a part-time role, which Copeland presumably felt was unnecessary. Time will tell whether his body can handle it, as even on a part-time schedule in WWE he picked up injuries which kept him out for some time.

- Copeland says that he felt that in AEW he'd have a real opportunity to help and contribute. He notes that he's never wrestled Samoa Joe or stood in the ring with Sting before, and at this stage in his career it's exciting and enticing to have a lot of new talent to work with. He says his debut made him feel free, and that it was fun. He says it felt like when he first started out on the indies (I know what he means, but lol), and that it's important for him to be able to be involved every week rather than every three months. He wants to be a full time guy for as long as is possible.

- Khan says Copeland will be on Dynamite, and Copeland says he'll give his mission statement and explain what tonight meant. Copeland says he feels like a little kid again. Copeland says the intro video was shot on Friday night with help from Darby Allin. Khan notes that Copeland will be on Collision on Saturday as well. Khan says that Dynamite the following week is on Tuesday, which is his birthday, and Copeland absolutely cracks up at this as Khan looks a bit confused by the reaction - but nonetheless says he got the best birthday present as Copeland will be facing Luchasaurus on that show.

- Copeland is asked about bucket list items now that he's in a new company. He mentions facing Samoa Joe, Moxley and Claudio, as he hasn't wrestled any of those. Also mentions Kenny Omega.

- Someone asks how the conversations with AEW begun, and whether he'll be helping creatively. Copeland says he enjoys the creative side of things and details, and he plans to help anybody who needs it. He says that was one of the pivotal things in joining AEW, alongside his daughter telling him to "go and have fun with Uncle Jay (Christian)". Doesn't really answer the question about how the conversations between he and AEW started though.

- He's asked how he kept himself hidden until the PPV. He says Darby took him to some sketchy places, and otherwise he mostly stayed in his hotel room and snuck out to get food.

Christian stayed in kayfabe for his part of the scrum, so nothing really to write about there.

- Copeland is asked if Beth Phoenix could show up in AEW. He says there's nothing in the foreseeable, but he's really enjoyed working with her previously.

- Somebody asks why he came out to Metalingus, and whether he has rights to use the song. Copeland says Alter Bridge are his friends and that song will be with him wherever he goes. He says it was very important for him to come out to that song.

 

[The Grayfox]

People freaking out about the song was weird to me. It’s been known forever that WWE didn’t have the rights to it and that Edge was friends with the band. People on Reddit are ridiculous. “TONY KHAN GOING ALL OUT SECURING THE RIGHTS TO METALINGUS!” Fuck’s sake, it’s not The Final Countdown, it’s Alter Bridge lol

I know I’m shitting all over this thing. Self-admittedly, I think going to AEW was a mistake but if he was going to do it, a new presentation would’ve been good. It’s just feels like Edge-lite. Same entrance, same music, same everything but on a lesser scale. It was a good opportunity to do something new. Apparently he has trademarked “ledgend” which could be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while.

 

[DE4life]

I guess we'll see how it plays out. I think Metalingus is associated with Edge in the same way Cult of Personality is forever linked to Punk, so I get why they'd stick with it. Edge himself said that's what he wanted, so if he was able to get to use the song for cheap or nothing at all, then Khan and AEW wouldn't have had much reason to say no. Have to admit it's a great entrance theme too. I think the problem with a different theme, especially when Edge has been using Metalingus for so long, is that it'd feel like a downgrade, which obviously isn't what you want to portray when a new acquisition arrives. It's like when Bret came to WCW and they gave him that knockoff WWE theme, or the knockoff nWo theme for Hogan in TNA (and the shittier version of Real American when he first started in WCW, come to think of it) - it just immediately sets the tone as "this is the same thing, but not as good". AEW's presentation of Edge was pretty much identical to WWE, it's just the camera work wasn't as good. There was literally a split second of the fans reacting and then you barely saw the crowd again after that until Edge hit the ring. WWE would have lingered on that crowd reaction for at least a few seconds. I think part of the problem is that Edge came out literally as soon as the music started playing, rather than giving it a few moments before running out on stage.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, the presentation was the same, but it felt like Edge coming out in TNA or something. No matter how hard they try, I still can’t see it as anything more than a glorified indy. I don’t even know how to explain it other than production value. It just feels second rate.

Back in the day when you put Nitro on, it felt big. Their production value was at least on par with WWE, if not greater. AEW just feels less than in this regard and for a company with as much money as it’s claimed they have, it’s unacceptable. And it seems like it’s rarely discussed. Yes, they have good talent. But none of it means much if the product doesn’t feel big. And it just doesn’t feel that way to me. Something major is still lacking. That isn’t Edge’s fault obviously. I’m sure he’s excited about a new talent pool to work with. He has nothing to prove, presumably doesn’t need the money, he’s there because he wants to be. That’s cool, I respect that. But there’s still that part of me that is like “this dude has main evented Wrestlemania” and now he’s… here? I don’t know, it just feels wrong in some way. In the same way “The Rated R Superstar Adam Copeland” feels wrong. We know JR is going to accidentally call him Edge 5 times per broadcast anyway. Everybody is going to. That’s how he’s been known for 25 years.

The thing is, I want AEW to do well. It’s good for wrestling fans to have options. But for my taste, they do so much wrong. Their storylines suck. They suck at building homegrown talent. The production issues. Their disaster of a video game — I played it for like 20 minutes and was very glad I chose to pirate it. It’s all very TNA. Bringing in established stars and leeching off their previous success and then acting like they’ve done something huge. They’ve done nothing except pay to bring them in and act like they’ve accomplished something worth talking about. They have MJF and I would bet a lot of money that he ends up in WWE. In fact, AEW fucked up pretty bad by letting Cody go because he has a lot of close friends in AEW that will probably follow him. Jade Cargill is just the first. It’s already rumored that Ricky Starks will leave when his contract is up. MJF is close with Cody and he has WWE written all over him. And the difference between guys going to WWE and AEW is that WWE will actually elevate them and make them stars versus using whatever they did somewhere else and resting on their laurels. Cody himself is proof of this and my guess is Jade Cargill will be very much the same.

I realize how pro WWE / anti AEW this is coming across and that’s fine. It is what it is. The point is, for me to actually start giving a shit about AEW, they really need to step it up. This isn’t a brand new company anymore. They’re almost 5 years in, there’s no excuses at this point.

 

[DE4life]

Well, AEW lost me some time ago as a regular viewer, so I understand where you're coming from. Whilst AEW production has been frustrating at times with missed shots and poor audio, it's never been a major problem for me. The main thing that turned me off from AEW was the amalgamation of multiple companies into the product, especially ROH. At that point the product felt diluted and bloated, to the point where I lost connection to a lot of the characters and didn't find anything they were doing very interesting. It seemed to become a fed that cared more about "five star matches" and cramming a thousand people into multi-man spotfests than a company that cared about producing compelling television with creative storylines worth following.

It's a shame, man, but AEW hasn't become what I wanted it to be. I'm still glad it's around, and there's always the chance for things to improve. WWE has gone through plenty of peaks and troughs across the years. For me at least, this period is a trough for AEW and I'm just not hugely into what they're doing.

 

[The Grayfox]

As an adult, I’m not a regular viewer of any wrestling promotion if I’m being honest. The days of sitting down and watching weekly wrestling shows all the way through are over. I watch the PPVs and catch highlights of the shows. There’s too many hours of wrestling per week for me to realistically watch it all. If I hear there’s a good match or segment, I’ll watch it. Otherwise, I just keep up on news and watch PPVs. Besides, none of them are good enough to warrant watching all the way through anyway. Seeing DIY reunite on Raw was cool, but the crowd was lukewarm at best. When they have to pipe in cheers and chants…

Really, there’s nothing that captivating going on right now. I don’t see any can’t-miss storylines or angles happening. LA Knight’s rise is sort of interesting, but again you can catch his promo on a highlight. The MJF/Adam Cole stuff is good but now Adam Cole is out with an injury again. They’re really trying to keep The Bloodline angle is still going and it isn’t working. Jimmy and Jey leave the Bloodline, Jey wrestles Roman, Jimmy turns on Jey… for some reason, then rejoins the Bloodline because… well, we have nothing else he can do because we didn’t think this through. At a time when wrestling is supposedly “red hot”, there doesn’t seem much to be interested in.

Randy Orton appears to be on his way back, probably so that he too can lose to Roman Reigns. Other than Punk returning to WWE, I’m not sure what they can really do right now to change the dynamic.

 

[The Grayfox]

I watched Edge's segment from Dynamite. I've gotta say, him and Christian made 90% of AEW look like a bunch of amateurs. They go out there and do that meanwhile Kenny Omega trips over his words in a 20 second backstage promo.