Let's talk wrasslin'

[DE4life]

2005-2007 TNA was pretty cool. Basically a glorified indy but with some fantastic wrestlers, and they tried to keep that traditional wrestling feeling in terms of storylines. Nothing overly outlandish or ridiculous, although they still had their moments.

The show eventually got taken over by the bigger names that arrived - Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Sting, Booker T. They had a faction called the Main Event Mafia, which was a major storyline in TNA through 2008 especially. It was still okay, but the company felt different. There was one incident where Scott Hall no showed a PPV, and Joe was instructed to cut a shoot promo on Hall as a result:



Potato quality, but it's the only link I can see on YouTube for this.

Anyway, Nash was legit upset over Joe's promo and slapped him backstage, so things were already starting to go off the rails a bit here.

TNA recovered somewhat in 2009, but then hogan and Bischoff arrived in 2010 and absolutely tanked the company. Got rid of the six sides, brought in their over-the-hill buddies, shoved down the original TNA wrestlers and basically turned the show into a joke. They tried competing with WWE briefly head-to-head on Mondays, but that went about as badly as you'd expect, deciminating their viewer figures and forcing them to retreat back to Thursdays after a few months.

I lost interest in TNA around 2012/2013 time and never really went back to watching it. They had a few years where they were good, and a lot of years where they sucked.

 

[The Grayfox]

I remember the Kevin Nash/Samoa Joe incident though I don't remember if I had ever watched the video of it. When it came to Scott Hall, I don't think Kevin Nash would ever stand for a bad word being said about him. I think most of us would kill for a friend that has our back the way Kevin Nash had Scott Hall's. Scott Hall was one of the guys who's passing got me pretty emotional. He was one of my favorites growing up. Razor Ramon remains one of my absolute favorite characters of all time. Plus Scott Hall was excellent in the ring and he a had a damn good mind for the business too. A lot of people shit on the early/mid-90s era WWF, but being a kid during that time, I loved it. I think people forget that it was aimed at kids and when you remember watching it through the eyes of a kid, it's a completely different thing. Razor and Diesel will always be two of my favorites. When I was 12 years old, I didn't care that Nash had 6 moves (including the hair flip), I just wanted to see him hit a Jackknife.

I remember when Bischoff and Hogan went to TNA and I distinctly remember thinking "well, this is either going to be really good or really bad." It ended up being the latter, but I had hoped some of the Bischoff magic would work over there. It didn't. I remember watching clips back then of Hogan's daughter being in TNA and stuff like that. Pretty ridiculous.

 

[The Grayfox]

Also, I think Kevin Nash isn't afraid to stand up to anyone. He tells a story about slapping Roddy Piper and being very surprised that Piper didn't do anything because he was led to believe that Piper was a bad ass and wouldn't stand for it. Instead, Piper just sat down. I guess when you look at the guy who just open hand slapped you and he's almost 7 feet tall, it's a different kind of thing.

 

[The Grayfox]

The Endeavor deal is supposedly going to be finalized in a matter of hours. And how do they celebrate? By bringing in Nia Jax! The reckless, antivax, conspiracy nutjob that nobody asked for. Woo.

 

[DE4life]

In regards to the incident with Joe and Nash, from what Joe has said he was basically given a mandate to go out and stir some stuff up. He figured he had the okay to start an angle and says he wasn't genuinely angry or upset - basically the TNA originals were used to this kind of shit happening by that point - he was just trying to generate an interesting angle to go forward with. He said he was oblivious to the fact he had heat with anyone until he went backstage after the match and was confronted by Nash. He then realised he'd gone too far and would have done things differently if he'd known that nobody else had been warned that Joe had been given license to cut a promo like that. Basically the typical TNA communication failure.

I was quite excited when Bischoff and Hogan arrived, but in hindsight it was never going to work for a number of reasons. Even if Bischoff had the spark from back in the 90s, the landscape of wrestling and TV as a whole had changed massively. The wrestling audience had drastically dwindled by 2010. Spike TV was not Turner and did not have the reach required for a second Monday Night War. Hogan simply wasn't the draw he was in the mid-90s, and he was 75% retired as an active worker by that point anyway. Production wise TNA didn't have the budget to make themselves look like a big deal. All of the big decisions - bringing in names with "star" value, changing to four sides, taking TNA on the road - backfired because there wasn't a big enough set of new fans to capture, and the TNA loyalists didn't want that much change. WWE fans meanwhile barely even knew TNA existed, let alone cared enough to watch it, whilst back in the 90s WWE fans knew perfectly well about WCW and had some interest in the show if the likes of Hogan, Macho Man, Flair, etc were appearing.

It was basically doomed to failure from the start. They didn't need the Hogan/Bischoff combo, they needed a Heyman type who knew what it was like to be an underdog company and knew how to get people watching the product. As long as Heyman wasn't given the reigns financially he would have, imo anyway, been far more of an asset to TNA than Hogan/Bischoff ever could have been.

 

[DE4life]

Apparently the Nia Jax rehiring was one of Vince's first big signings, so, yeah... glad I'm not watching anymore.

 

[The Grayfox]

Speaking of Vince, apparently he's back to work and making changes to the shows remotely. No surprise there.

Did you catch that picture on Wallstreet of the TKO group? Jesus, you can practically smell the 10 different kinds of shitty cologne competing.

 

[DE4life]

Yeah, I didn't even clock Vince at first with that ridiculous moustache, lmao

 

[DE4life]

Seriously what even is this, lmao

 

[The Grayfox]

He seriously looks like a fucking GTA villain. This is some serious touch-up. At first glance, it doesn't even look like Vince McMahon. He is such a ridiculous human being.

Couple of interesting news bits from today. Edge was removed from WWE's internal roster and the report said he was likely heading to AEW. Then by the end of the day, Edge was added back to the internal roster. These reporters are hard to follow sometimes.

Jade Cargill is expected to be heading to WWE in the near future, which is a shock to me. She's a homegrown AEW talent and I expected her to stay there. This could be interesting. She has potential. She also seems like the kind of person who wants to be a character and do the WWE thing, so maybe not a HUGE shock. But she's only in her third year as a wrestler and I bet some time at the PC could do wonders for her.

Nick Khan dodged a lot of questions in the last few days concerning CM Punk and also Vince's role in the new TKO company. His answer on Punk was very much a non-answer. Same with Vince, though he did say Vince will still be involved with creative.

Like you, I don't watch weekly anymore. I read results and catch highlights. I did watch LA Knight from Smackdown last week and it gave me a good chuckle.

Talking about Miz's theme song; "How does that song go? 'I came to plaaaay', right? Now if I was a complete moron, I would say 'let's look at that adjective.' But I'm not a moron, so I'm gonna say 'let's look at that verb; play' I didn't come here to play, Miz." Obviously taking a shot at Kevin Nash's famous Nitro debut promo. Nash has been very critical of LA Knight on his podcast and Knight sticking it up his ass was pretty funny.

 

[DE4life]

GTA villain, lmao, yeah his picture looks like it could be on one of the loading screens. Like an American-Italian don or something.

The situation with Edge seems pretty weird at the moment. From what I read he's finished his last contracted date in terms of matches, but his contract is supposed to expire with WWE some time this month. If he's going to AEW I assume it'll be to wrestle - to be honest I don't think he'd move the needle for them in any significant way, so if WWE don't want to pay him what he's asking for, I don't think there's a huge risk in letting him go. Personally I'd love to see another heel Edge and Christian run - first in AEW, then finished off in WWE. Both companies would have very different ideas about how to do a run like that, so it'd be interesting to see.

Jade potentially going to WWE is a surprise to me. Not in terms of them wanting her, I just thought AEW was heavily invested in her considering they've been giving her this Goldberg style push. Jade is limited in the ring but has an incredible look and overall presence. With a bit of work at the PC I think she'd fit into WWE just fine. Until Nia Jax botches a move on her and breaks her arm or something, but oh well, Vince gonna Vince. I think it'd be a big loss for AEW, but at the same time they've got a lot of women on the roster and none of them really get to do anything decent these days, so... maybe it's for the best.

I read Khan's answer on Punk, at surface level at least, as a soft no. He obviously doesn't want to burn bridges with Punk, as who knows what'll happen in future, but I didn't get the sense there was much enthusiasm in bringing him back. On the other hand, if they were going to bring him in as a surprise, that's exactly how you'd expect them to respond to questions about Punk. If Don Vince thinks Punk can make him money, and the money-making potential outweighs other risks, he'll bring him back.

I think Nash is purposefully playing devil's advocate in regards to LA Knight just to get clicks and attention. He's been doing it with Punk recently as well. It'd be pretty ridiculous for him to rip on Knight for borrowing AE character personality traits whilst ignoring the fact Scott Hall ripped off Scarface, Sting ripped off The Crow, Hogan ripped off Superstar Billy Graham... Nash is too smart not to know it's all the same thing, which is why I think he's just messing with people. Nice zinger from Knight in his promo regardless.

 

[DE4life]

Did you see MJF's Steiner math promo? Amazing.

 

[The Grayfox]

It was amazing indeed.

Ryan Clark reports that along with staff cuts, WWE is planning "major main roster and NXT cuts" as early as tomorrow. Who do you have on your bingo card?

I've got most of the re-hires done by HHH; Karrion Kross, Scarlet, Hit Row, Good Brothers. Sadly I can see both Ciampa and Gargano getting axed. Elias. I imagine there will be at least one shocker. Maybe AJ or Drew? They might use the opportunity to "release" Edge to make it look like they didn't want him.

 

[DE4life]

It's pretty disappointing how it's worked out for most Triple H's rehires. The majority of them are in no better position than before they were terminated, and some, like Hit Row, are even worse. Obviously the main success story has been LA Knight, rescued from managerial purgatory. The fact Vince also wanted Adam Cole to come to the main roster as a manager... smh.

But yeah, most of the rehires will likely be discarded again at some point soon. I think it could genuinely be pretty brutal with some big, typically safe names potentially being given the boot. It's not like AEW or Impact has a lot of space on their rosters to pick a lot of people up either. AEW is struggling with the size of their roster as it is right now.

 

[The Grayfox]

Supposedly they’re looking to cut 50-100 million. That’s… potentially a lot of talent. And it makes very few people safe if they’re really intent on cutting that much. I’ll never truly understand the corporate world. You have this big merger, talk about record profits, you have people on the board who are literal BILLIONAIRES and you insist on firing people. It’s absurd. I know there are reasons companies do this but they will never make sense to me.

The pandemic layoffs were mostly undercard talent but there were genuine shock releases too; Bray Wyatt being the big one. But even guys like Braun Strowman, who had recently been WWE Champion was a shock. Aleister Black, Keith Lee, guys that I genuinely thought had bright WWE futures too. If it’s true they’re cutting as much as they are, we could see a very upset r/sc lol. I really hope they don’t release guys like Regal, who had jobs elsewhere and decided to come back.

Adam Cole 100% dodged a bullet by leaving. He would’ve floundered and ended up in the Johnny Gargano position.

 

[DE4life]

From what I've read TKO has a shitload of debt, so yeah... cost cutting will likely be the name of the game. Keep the product going with as little overhead as possible. You have to think a lot of wrestlers on the fringe are putting the feelers out to other companies right now.

The Rock's return on Smackdown was a cool surprise - didn't realise it's been 4 years since he was last on WWE programming. A monster pop, as you'd expect. I assume it's a one off for the time being, but you know WWE would love to get Rock vs Reigns to headline a WM at some point. Time is ticking for Rocky as a performer though - he's 51 and those bumps aren't going to get any easier to take. His movie career will be his #1 priority regardless, so I'm not convinced we'll ever actually get that match. He said in his interview with McAfee recently that there was a plan for Rock/Reigns at last year's WM but scheduling never aligned... and I'm not sure it ever will, unless the writer's strike is still going on next year.

 

[The Grayfox]

The only real problems I have with a Rock/Reigns match at Mania is a) that means Roman keeps the title until WM41, which is absolutely absurd. And b) Cody will flounder. They've put all their eggs in that basket. It is very clear that Cody "finishing the story" is the only option for him as a top guy. They did the documentary, they mention it almost every time he is on TV -- the seeds have been sown and it's obvious that's the plan. If they don't do it soon, I think Cody will lose steam because the crowd is going to stop caring. I'm already pretty much there if I'm being honest. I like Cody, I think he's a hell of an entertainer, but it's starting to get stale. And if they change course now and have him beat Rollins for the new belt, that won't be good either. The story is him winning the WWE championship.

You could argue that The Rock will beat Roman, but I don't see that even being a possibility. Like you said, his time as an in-ring performer is very limited and likely reaching the end. Plus, having Rock go over Roman makes your entire roster look like shit. Not that WWE hasn't done things like that before. I read the other day that Roman's next title defense is scheduled to be in Saudi in November. That'll be his second title defense since Mania. It's getting ridiculous. The Bloodline story is toast, we have Brock Lesnar part 2 holding the belt and showing up a few times a year. How do you claim that his run as champion is so amazing when he's never there? Good for him for getting a deal like that, but pass the title off to somebody else. Brock has the same type of deal and he makes it work just fine not being champion. Roman holding that title for another year and a half just isn't going to work. There is nobody left for him. Maybe Punk comes back and they feed him to Roman, but they're running out of opponents for him. LA Knight? Nobody is going to believe that Knight is going to beat Roman right now. I can't keep suspending disbelief, it's getting to be too much.

 

[The Grayfox]

It’s so weird to me that there’s a news story going around that Punk has no plans to sue Tony Khan/AEW. Yeah, no shit. It’s like some weird attempt to make him look like the bigger person when in reality it’s clear that he has no case otherwise he would probably try to sue. The same report says Punk is happy to move on from “the drama that followed him around AEW.” Let’s take a look at the drama…

Punk isn’t happy with the way things are going with the Elite and instead of handling it like an adult and having a meeting with them, he goes off like a spoiled child at a press conference and a fight ensues. Drama started by Punk.

Punk comes back and takes cheap shots at the Bucks and Hangman. He was trying to “start a program” with them knowing full well they wanted nothing to do with it. Drama started by Punk.

Punk freaks out because he doesn’t have travel plans in the UK and again, instead of talking to somebody and finding out that nobody does, he flips out. Drama started by Punk.

Punk tells Jack Perry he can’t do a spot on Collision despite having no authority to do so and then loses his shit when Perry takes a shot at him at All In, something Punk has just recently done to the Bucks and Hangman. He then tries to start a fight with Perry backstage, tries to choke him out and lunges at his boss while screaming obscenities. Drama started by Punk.

So, yeah, I’m sure he is happy to move on from all the drama… that he fucking started. This is such a classic case of “I can dish it out but I can’t take it” by a grown man. It’s ridiculous.

 

[DE4life]

Personally whilst I think WWE would love to have Rock/Reigns as the WM main event, and would jettison anything else including Cody's push to make it happen, the stars probably won't align for that. I just don't see Rock taking that kind of risk at this point. He got pretty messed up physically from the match with Cena, and that was 10 years ago. If he got that beat up at 41, it's not going to be any easier at 51. Rock is best left as a special attraction to come out, say his catchphrases and have a segment or two with newer talent. Give them the rub without going into a full match. He's perfect for a hosting type role, but I think his in-ring days are likely behind him now. Never say never with WWE though. As far as Cody is concerned, from my perspective he simply had to win at WrestleMania. I don't care how people justify it, in my view it was the wrong call to keep the strap on Roman, and him losing it would (imo anyway) have made the Bloodline breakup more interesting and nuanced than him keeping the belt hostage. Him losing the title would have been the first major crack, and a good reason for the Usos especially to begin losing faith in Roman as a leader. Him keeping the belt did nothing positive for that storyline.

As far as a part-timer coming in, beating a dominant champ and making the roster look like shit... yeah, we've been there before. Goldberg squashing the Fiend as the most obvious recent example. That was a fucking joke. Still, I just don't see it happening in this instance. Even if, hypothetically, Rock agreed to one more match against Roman, he ain't agreeing to anything close to another proper part-time run. At best it would be a one off match, so giving Rock the title would make zero sense. Not that it's stopped WWE before, but I don't think it'd happen in this situation. Not unless Rock was genuinely committed to another, final run and put aside his movie commitments, which seems highly unlikely.

The Punk story is pretty funny. A clear attempt from him to try and control the narrative. I suppose "CM Punk Chooses Not to Sue AEW" looks better as a headline than "CM Punk Can't Sue AEW Because He Has No Grounds To Do So", which, based on everything that's been reported, is most likely the case. In terms of the drama, yeah, regardless of where you place the blame in terms of Punk, the Bucks, Hangman, Perry, Khan and AEW as a whole... pretty much all of it was instigated by Punk himself. It was his choice to behave like a dickhead. If he'd come back with his head down and just worked hard to prove his doubters wrong then I very much doubt anybody would have caused him any problems. Probably down the road the Elite would have come around to the idea of working with Punk again, if he seemed genuinely prepared to move on from everything that had happened. Instead he made it extremely clear that he still had a massive chip on his shoulder, and predictably chaos soon followed.

 

[The Grayfox]

100% agree on the Cody/Roman situation. It was so obvious that Mania was the time. Everybody was ready for it and I also agree that it would've benefited the Bloodline story had Roman lost the title first. As you said, a crack in the foundation. It screams of either politicking from Roman or more likely Heyman or Vince making the call. That's guess work obviously -- HHH could've very well made that decision -- but it certainly feels like some fuckery because it was the most logical place and person for Roman to lose to. As unpopular of an opinion as it probably is, I don't think Sami Zayn was the right person for it, nor was it the right event. I just don't see Roman losing that title anywhere but Mania in front of 80-90,000 people. And as much as I love Sami, I don't think he's 'the guy.' I think he's got a good spot as an upper middle card guy, but I just don't see WWE making him the face of the company and realistically, whoever they DO see as the next face of the company is going to be the one to dethrone Reigns. Logically it's Cody, but having him lose first hurts his credibility imo.

It's crazy to me that there are reports surfacing that WWE is actually interested in Punk. Stranger things have happened in wrestling but it's still amazing. Something tells me that if he does come back, they're really going to let him have it for what happened almost 10 years ago. We'll see CM Punk in a "crybaby match", which hasn't seen the light of day since Razor Ramon/123 Kid. I agree though, if he had just kept to himself and laid low, things would've gone a lot better for him in AEW. Dude just can't help himself. Personally I think he likes causing problems.