Let's talk wrasslin'

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, that was a gut punch. My buddy text me right after the news broke. I hadn't read it yet, and I just get a text that said "Holy shit." I knew something had happened and before I even text him back I immediately went online and saw the headline. It didn't even seem real at first. It took a few minutes to sink in. The last I heard, a few weeks ago, he was doing really well and on his way back to WWE. Obviously I knew he had a health issue from all the reports but it seemed like it was a non-issue now. Except that it wasn't apparently. Really fucking sad, man. People can say what they want, but Windham Rotunda had an amazing mind for pro wrestling and he was so incredibly passionate about it.

 

[DE4life]

Oh no doubt. When I was done with WWE around 2019 the Firefly Funhouse segments are what brought me back - I thought they were fantastic. Bray had a great mind for the cinematic and storytelling elements of the business, he just never quite seemed to have synergy with with wrestling side of things. In his earlier years he was kneecapped by the booking, losing too many feuds to be taken seriously. Towards the end it was more a case of his stories never having a definitive end, and lacking a decent payoff.

Nonetheless, he's been a part of so many memorable moments since I started watching again. Often he was the only good thing about a Raw or Smackdown. Probably my favourite parts of his career were his Smackdown run in 2016/2017 with Randy Orton (excluding the awful Wrestlemania match they had) and the earliest days of the Funhouse and the beginnings of the Fiend. It went downhill fairly soon after he started wrestling, but for a brief period of time it was some of the best stuff WWE had put out in years.

It's just no age at all to go. Heartbreaking.

It's one of those ones where I'll always remember where I was when I heard the news. When Eddie died I was in Florida on holiday with my family, watching Smackdown. This was 2005, so some time before phones could easily surf the net - particularly if you were abroad. I was floored, as was my family, as they'd all been watching WWE during the Attitude Era and knew who Eddie was.

With Benoit it was about 1am outside a nightclub, just after the rock & metal night had ended. One of my friends mentioned that Benoit had died - again, totally stunned. I went home and watched Raw (it came on in the very early mornings in the UK, live, back then) and watched the Raw tribute episode in shock. That was obviously before the real story broke.

Today one of my co-workers came over and sat down on the desk behind me and said "did you hear about that wrestler who died?" I thought he meant Terry Funk so I was like "yeah, man, did you know Terry Funk?" I asked because the lad is 23, so Funk was somewhat before his time. He looked confused for a moment and said "no, not him - Bray Wyatt". I was silent for a few moments and then just said "what? Bray Wyatt?" ... I couldn't really process what he was telling me. He said he was pretty sure it was him. I then checked squaredcircle on my phone and yeah, sure enough, it was Bray.

With both Eddie and Benoit it was a real shock because I'd been watching them in WCW from the first moment I began watching wrestling in 1996, all the way through their WWE tenures. With Bray, he was one of the major players when I got back into WWE around 2014ish. He's been one of my favourites since I got back into wrestling, as he was consistently one of if not the most interesting character on the show. I always looked forward to his segments, as even though sometimes they'd be duds, usually they were memorable and outside the box creatively. I appreciated that.

It's such a shame his final run didn't pan out properly. His return was incredible. His new theme song was fantastic, and the original idea seemed to be very unique. Sadly it just didn't work. Whether it was Vince and creative muddying the waters, or Bray just missing the mark, I don't know... but there was so much potential there. I still had faith that Bray would redeem it when he came back. It sucks we'll never see where it could have gone, but more importantly it sucks that a guy who people have nothing but good things to say about is gone.

 

[The Grayfox]

In a time where factions actually seem to be important again, I was really looking forward to a new Bray Wyatt-led faction. There were rumors before his return last year that he was going to be doing just that. The “Wyatt 6” idea (or rumors of it) sounded cool. I know there was talk of it including Bo Dallas, Alexa Bliss, Joe Gacy and others including ROH’s Dutch & Vincent. As much as it sucks for us fans to see such a talented guy go, I feel so bad for his family.

This last run may not have gone the way people wanted it to, but I’ll never forget his return at Extreme Rules last year. It was such a cool moment. Wrestler deaths always affect me in a weird way. For the most part, I’ve never shared a conversation with any of these people. I don’t know them, I’ve never even met them. Yet it feels like somebody I knew has passed away. I don’t feel that way when an actor or somebody affiliated with Hollywood passes. There’s a strangely unique connection between wrestlers and wrestling fans. I briefly met Eddie Guerrero in 2003, but when he passed away, it felt like my best friend was gone. It was very upsetting. It’s amazing the connections we form through a tv screen.

It’ll be interesting to see what kind of tribute they give him tonight on Smackdown. I hope it’s more than a 10-bell salute as I believe he deserves more than that.

 

[DE4life]

I'm assuming the Wyatt-6 thing was coming - Bo Dallas and Alexa Bliss would surely have been two of those in the group. Wide open for who else could have been involved, but it would have been very interesting to see. Certainly a shame we'll never know what the conclusion to Wyatt's return was going to be. It hadn't really got going before he took time off. It was going at such a glacial pace that I figured creative had scrapped the original idea and had no idea what to do next. I guess it's possible Wyatt's health was a known concern and they were just playing it safe.

Wyatt's return at Extreme Rules and the follow up promo on Smackdown were both awesome. I really digged his new theme song too. It really did feel like a fresh start, with a nod to his various past gimmicks.

Smackdown will certainly be interesting tonight. I assume they'll go big on paying tribute, as they should. A ten bell salute is the bare minimum of what they need to do to acknowledge Windham's contributions over the past decade.

I think part of the reason this one hits hard, for me anyway, is because Windham was an outsider - he was different, and embraced that. It's something most of us in the metal community can relate to. In a way he felt like one of us - compared to all of the carved-from-stone, model-like WWE wrestlers, he had a unique look and a unique style - himself dialled up to 11, something which so many Attitude Era stars embodied.

I'll miss his presence for sure. The show was more interesting whenever he was a part of it.

I do wonder what would have happened if he'd gone to AEW instead of WWE. We'll never know if the health issues would have been the same, but in terms of how he would have been presented and who he would have had programs with... that could have been something special. Or a mess. With AEW it can go either way.

 

[The Grayfox]

I think you're spot on about the outsider stuff. I've always been drawn to the people, or characters, that have that outsider mentality. Like you said, most of us can relate. At times I've read that certain wrestlers are into metal and I'm just like "yeah, that's my guy." Or somebody like Malakai Black who I have a lot in common with. I've never met him but somehow I feel some sort of connection just based on our mutual interests. And to me, that's the magic of pro wrestling. It's a really cool thing. Bray Wyatt had that same sort of energy about him. He was in the prime of his career, hell, in the prime of his LIFE. I think so many of us will always wonder "what if?"

Wembley is tomorrow. I'm not going to watch it live, but I will watch it tomorrow night. I'm hoping for their sake that they have a really great show. A lot of eyes are going to be on AEW and if they completely bungle it, like they have before, it's not going to look good. I really want them to succeed but I'm just not invested in what they're doing. I hate to be the guy that says "the storylines aren't there, it's all wrestling..." I love pro wrestling. I love a great pro wrestling match as much as the next fan, but if I am not invested in what's happening, if there is no story to tell, then why am I watching? And I think that is why I've looked at AEW as a glorified indy promotion. There's a balance. I don't want a soap opera, but I also need to feel like I'm invested in WHY these people are wrestling. They don't have any Dusty Rhodes or Jake Roberts or Ric Flair. They don't have a lot of people who can tell a story in the ring. We get high spots and blood baths for the sake of it. It's just... meh.

Hopefully they can move beyond that.

 

[DE4life]

The worst thing about WWE's PG-era, during the early-to-mid 2010s especially, was that there was a distinct lack of variety. Far too many wrestlers cut from the same cloth, wrestling the same style with the same gimmicks and the same old storylines. The blandness of the product really turned me off. You had a few exceptions like Punk, but even he got dragged down into those same old storylines. Even the Summer of Punk, which could have been great, was ultimately ruined by shitty booking. As Champion he was often overshadowed by or involved in programs rehashing the tired evil authority figure trope. From memory there were numerous PPVs where Punk was champ but not in the main event.

Wyatt was a completely different entity compared to all others. He was fresh, genuinely unique, and his storylines throughout the years benefited from that eccentric aura. There were things about his character that were frustrating at times. His cryptic promos were sometimes too cryptic, and felt like the same thing being said in different ways. He never seemed to win the big one when it mattered. His matches would sometimes fail to deliver as he didn't have enough opponents with the ability to hide his weaknesses and accenuate his strengths in the ring. These were common problems throughout his tenure. However, despite all of that, he was usually the most memorable part of any show he was on. He was a performer who made me want to watch, who got me invested in what he was doing, because I never knew what to expect next. Sometimes it'd be a dud, but there was always the chance it would be fantastic and worth watching. At no point was Bray Wyatt boring, and that was often in stark contrast to the rest of WWE programming during the period he was active.

His career is a genuinely fascinating one. He started off on the main roster with The Nexus, but that didn't last too long and he was soon back in FCW. I guess they realised the 'Husky Harris' gimmick wasn't going to work on the main roster. He underwent a total character transformation and returned to the main roster in 2013 as Bray Wyatt alongside Harper and Rowan. He competed in a 'Ring of Fire' match with Kane, which he won (although Kane has a pretty dismal record when it comes to matches involving fire). We then had the iconic Daniel Bryan/Wyatt Family storyline, culminating in the legendary graphic of Bryan sitting atop of a cage leading the crowd in a 'Yes' chant after breaking free of his association with the Wyatts. Bray would then go on to have a feud with Cema, which produced some really cool promos and buildup. Cena eventually won the feud, and there is a lesser remembered feud between the Wyatts and Jericho which played out until September 2014.

Wyatt then disbanded the family, and Wyatt turned his attention to Dean Ambrose, beating him in a TLC match in December 2014 and then again on Raw in what was basically a hardcore match. Wyatt also won their third match, an ambulance match, in January. At the 2015 Rumble Wyatt was in the match for 47 minutes before being eliminated. He then went on to challenge The Undertaker to a match at Wrestlemania 31. He lost that match, which was contentious at the time, and to this day I believe Bray should have been the one to break the streak. The Wyatt family reformed after this, and added Braun Strowman to their ranks. They proceeded to feud with Reigns, Ambrose and Jericho, beating them at Night of Champions in September 2015. Wyatt's feud with Reigns ended with a loss at Hell in a Cell. Wyatt then targeted the Undertaker again, but he and Harper ultimately lost to Undertaker and Kane at Survivor Series.

Despite not having a match at Wrestlemania 32, the Wyatt family confronted The Rock in a segment that involved Rowan getting squashed in a quick match before the family were dealt with by both Rock and Cena. There was then a brief feud with the godawful League of Nations, for which no reason was given, before Bray got injured. Bray and the family returned in June and started a feud with the New Day. This period overall was a pretty lacklustre one for Bray. The family was divided when Wyatt and Harper were drafted to Smackdown in 2016 (later Rowan too) and Strowman was drafted to Raw.

Smackdown's post-draft 2016 to mid-2017 period is one of my favourite times in WWE. Wyatt focused on Randy Orton, recruiting him into the Wyatt Family. Bray and Orton would eventually win the tag titles - amazingly his first actual title in the company. Harper and Orton would lose the titles to American Alpha (using the freebird rule) less than a month later. This led to dissention between Harper and Orton, and Bray would eventually take Orton's side, attacking Harper and exiling him from the family. In the 2017 Rumble Wyatt was in the final three, alongside Reigns and Orton. Orton went on to win the Rumble, but Wyatt would reach the pinnacle a month later by winning the Elimination Chamber match - his first singles and world title. Orton would then go on to betray Wyatt and burn down the family compound, and at Wrestlemania 33 defeated Bray for the title in what was a weird, disappointing match. Wyatt was then transferred to Raw as part of the 2017 draft, also losing a non-title 'House of Horrors' match which was even more hokey and strange than the WM match.

His initial run on Raw was somewhat unremarkable, having serviceable feuds with Rollins and Balor, before illness sidelined him. He came back before the end of the year to feud with WWE's version of 'Broken' Matt Hardy, and they'd eventually form a tag team called the 'Deleters of Worlds' a couple of months after Bray lost an Ultimate Deletion match against Hardy. Bray once again didn't have a match at Wrestlemania, the second time in three years, but interfered in the Andre the Giant Battle Royal to help Hardy and form their new tag team. The won the tag titles in April at the Greatest Royal Rumble, but it goes without saying their victory was overshadowed by Titus Worldsliiiide. They'd lose the titles nearly three months later to the B-Team, featuring Windham's real life brother Bo Dallas. Matt Hardy would soon have to take a leave of absence to heal from injuries, effectively disbanding his team with Wyatt. Bray would also vanish from television, and not be involved in the Rumble or Wrestlemania.

In April 2019, the Firefly Funhouse began. Wyatt returned as a faux-children's show host, debuting an innovative and surreal segment which built up to his return to Raw on July 15th as The Fiend. He went over Finn Balor at Summerslam, beating him quickly and decisively. The Fiend also had a new finisher, the Mandible Claw. The Fiend's run was sadly tarnished early on with a terribly booked and horribly executed Hell in the Cell match with Seth Rollins which pushed beyond most people's ability to suspend their disbelief, and even worse, the match ended with a ref stoppage. Fans in attendence resoundingly rejected the match with boos and negative chants, and general criticism was fierce. The match ultimately goes down as one of the worst in WWE history. Wyatt, as The Fiend, would beat Rollins in a Falls Count Anywhere match at Crown Jewel in October to win his second world title. At the time this seemed unnecessary to me, and in my opinion at least giving the belt to The Fiend only handicapped the character in the immediate-term. He didn't need the belt and having it did nothing to enhance his storylines or character. Wyatt then wrestled against Daniel Bryan at Survivor Series and won the match. He began a feud with the Miz and for the first time in this run wrestled as himself rather than The Fiend at TLC, beating Miz and retaining the title. Bryan would then return after just over a month off and face The Fiend in a strap match at Royal Rumble 2020, which Wyatt won.

Goldberg would then return and squash The Fiend at Super Showdown in a monumentally stupid move which pretty much ruined everything as far as what Wyatt had been building. Goldberg did not need the belt for his match against Lesnar at Wrestlemania - the match was a big enough spectacle without it. All it did was ruin the mystique of The Fiend and barely add anything interesting to the Goldberg/Lesnar match. Nonetheless, Wyatt began a feud with John Cena which led to their bizarre segment at Wrestlemania 36. It wasn't really a match - more like a WWE acid trip. I personally thought it was pretty cool, but some hated it. This marks Wyatt's only victory at Wrestlemania.

Wyatt went on to challenge former stablemate Braun Strowman for the Universal Title. He lost their first match at Money in the Bank, wrestling as himself rather than The Fiend, and would then briefly return to his "Eater of Worlds" gimmick to defeat Strowman in a non-title "Swamp Fight" at Extreme Rules. The Fiend would then defeat Strowman at Summerslam to capture the Universal Title. He would lose the title to Roman Reigns seven days later at Payback in a triple threat match also involving Strowman. Reigns still holds that title as of today., having never lost it since

The Fiend would then feud with Kevin Owens, and also gained Alexa Bliss as a valet of sorts. He was drafted to Raw and would restart his feud with Randy Orton, which ended with Orton setting The Fiend on fire at the end of their inferno match at TLC in December. I found this to be ridiculously over-the-top. Wyatt then had some time off before returning in March 2021, continuing the feud with Orton. They had a match at Wrestlemania 37 which ended with Bliss distracting The Fiend by appearing with black liquid pouring down her face, allowing Orton to win. It was a weird and nonsensical finish. The next night on Raw Bliss would disassociate herself from Wyatt, whilst Wyatt hosted a Firefly Funhouse segment where he said he was going to have a fresh start. That turned out to be very true indeed, as Wyatt would once again disappear and then be released from WWE at the end of July.

Just over a year later, in September 2022, Wyatt was re-hired and made his return at Extreme Rules - appearing in a new mask to end the show. On the following Smackdown, Wyatt gave a heartfelt promo which seemed to be a mix of real-life and in-character remarks. He began a feud with LA Knight, and a new character called "Uncle Howdy" was introduced, who seemed to be an antagonist towards Wyatt. His first match came at the Royal Rumble, nearly four months after his re-emergence - a "Pitch Black" match against LA Knight sponsored by Mountain Dew, which had an interesting aesthetic but was cheapened by the rampant sponsorship. It lasted five minutes and ended with a botched elbow drop from a raised platform by Uncle Howdy, which set off some lame looking pyro, leading to Wyatt getting the pinfall victory. The match was largely panned.

Wyatt then turned his attention to Bobby Lashley and Brock Lesnar, stating he would face whoever won the match between the two at Elimination Chamber. Bray would then disappear from television before Wrestlemania, to deal with the COVID/heart issues which would ultimately take his life a few days ago, just as he was about to make his return.

So yeah, it was some career. Some very high points and some very low points, but the low points came from taking big chances. They didn't pay off, but he always bounced back from them.

 

[DE4life]

Watching All In now. Will post thoughts as it goes along. Spoilers ahoy so you might want to avoid this thread until you've seen it @The Grayfox

The pre-show match was fine, but no dissention between MJF and Cole. Just a straight title win for them.

Hook and Jack Perry was a really good match. Both guys did a great job.

They showed Mercedes Moné in the crowd and referenced her on the panel. Sounds like she's going to be involved in AEW in some fashion.

As expected, Joe very popular in the UK. Punk got a favourable reaction coming out, but being booed during the match itself. It's been a good match so far, fairly slow but good ring psychology. Fans are all in, so to speak. Punk with a heavy blade job after getting tossed head first through the bottom of the announce desk then being given the middle finger by Joe, lmao. Joe also gave the 'wanker' sign towards Punk which made me laugh.

Punk wins with the Pepsi Plunge. The expected result, but it was a good match. Slightly sloppy at times but nothing major.

The set looks really cool. Has a big show feel for sure. It's surreal to see such a massive crowd for a non-WWE event.

Big reactions for Hangman and Omega. I don't really follow NJPW so I don't know much about Bullet Club Gold. Expecting a decent match regardless.

From what I'm reading there was some kind of physical altercation between Jack Perry and CM Punk just before Punk came out for his match. Seriously, why can Punk just not be a dick for one day? Alvarez now saying he's in his dressing room with security, lmao. Apparently the altercation came about because after a spot where Perry was suplexed on the windscreen of a limo, Perry said "that's real glass, cry me a river" - which was a shot at Punk, who had previously vetoed Perry doing a similar spot on Collision. Just childish bullshit from all involved.

Bullet Club Gold wins. The crowd instantly deflates. It was a fun match I guess, but I didn't know enough about most of the participants to get majorly invested.

Next up The Bucks Vs FTR. Expecting big things from this one.

Match was pretty good, FTR retain. The multiple false finishes in Bucks matches always annoys me, but that aside it was solid enough. If AEW felt Cash was going to have serious problems after his arrest I assume they wouldn't have had FTR go over tonight.

Stadium Stampede up next, should be wild.

Yeah, that was wild and a lot of fun. Some crazy spots. Blood everywhere. A few botches but they managed to do the spots anyway. It was a pleasant surprise to see Best Friends pull off the win - good for them. AEW OG's who have earned a big win like that. Good stuff.

Women's fatal four way up next. Saraya comes out with her family to "We Will Rock You". That must have set TK back a fair bit in licensing. Toni Storm comes out to "God Save the Queen" for some reason, lmao. God Save the King now, I guess, but yeah... nobody singing the anthem. Good reaction for DMD.

Jack Perry was ordered to leave the arena, but Punk is still there. As more details come out, it does seem like Perry was the instigator in this instance.

The women's match was decent enough, Saraya wins to a big pop. A pretty short reign for Shida.

Seek and Destroy for Sting's entrance, awesome. Money well spent by TK there. Sting and Darby Vs Swerve and Christian. Bit of a random match but let's see how it plays out. Sting with a cricket bat instead of a baseball bat, lmao. I swear the crowd chanted "TNA" during Sting and Christian's staredown, haha. TNA was actually pretty popular over here for a while - mainly because it was on free TV, as opposed to WWE being on a pay channel.

Really fun match, very enjoyable. It's incredible that Sting still moves around the way he does at his age. What an absolute legend. He's pretty much been my favourite wrestler since I first started watching, and it's awesome to see him still going strong in 2023. Seek and Destroy blares out of the speakers as Sting and Darby are victorious. Perfect.

Jericho and Ospreay up next. It'll be interesting to see if Jericho is up to a match with Ospreay.

Pretty good match in the end. Not a MOTY candidate or anything, but they told a good story and worked well together. Big pop for Ospreay as the hometown lad.

Next up the Trios match between House of Black and The Acclaimed & Billy Gunn. House of Black pay tribute to Bray Wyatt by bringing out a lantern and placing it on the stage, with the commentators also speaking about Bray's legacy. Classy touch, and House of Black were the right choice to pay tribute. The Acclaimed saying the HOB are "a bigger disgrace than Prince Andrew", lmao. Beautiful. Much like Sting, Billy Gunn is in incredible shape for his age. Dude barely looks any different from when he was in WWE.

The Acclaimed win what was an okay match, nothing special. Big reaction for the title change. House of Black's look is awesome, for the record. HOB hand the belts to The Acclaimed without incident.

Finally onto the main event. It's been a really solid event so far, let's see if the main event can cap things off in the right manner.

Awesome entrance for MJF. Ridiculously over the top, but I love it.

Miro now tweeting and say it isn't true that Perry started the altercation with Punk. Looks like he's trying to get himself banned from Collision as well. Really sucks that this stupid drama is overshadowing AEW's biggest event of the year. The post-event scrum will be interesting. I wonder if Punk will appear?

Match ends in a double pin and is announced as a draw. Crowd boos heavily. Cole asks for five more minutes, MJF says no, five minutes isn't enough - they're going until there's a winner "in fucking Wembley". Crowd cheers its approval.

After a host of ref bump shenanigans (including a Panama Sunrise on the ref, lmao) and attempted interference from Roderick Strong, MJF wins after Adam Cole refuses to cheat to win.

After all the talk of who was going to turn on who, both men ended up respecting the other. Cole sulks post match and MJF gets mad, giving Cole the chance to attack him from behind with the belt, but Cole refuses. They then share a hug and Cole raises MJF's arm . It's then announced that next year's All In will once again be held in London. Nice.

Well, that was unexpected. I actually like what they did here. They subverted expectations and let the show end with a feel good moment. Good stuff.

Overall an enjoyable watch - a shame about the Punk drama but you would only have known about it if reading the internet, so it didn't impact the actual show in any way.

 

[The Grayfox]

All in all, a pretty damn fun show. I didn’t watch the pre show but read that Cole/MJF and Hook won their matches, along with Jack Perry instigating shit with Punk.

My watch along notes:

No Justin Roberts? Weird. Big pop for Samoa Joe, he seems really over in the UK. CM Punk out next, wearing white, which I can assume we’ll see a lot of as people seem to like wearing white at these big events for some reason. I love Joe’s snap jabs, they always look cool. Seeing a Pepsi Plunge was fun, but it definitely didn’t look great. They had a better match than I expected though.

There’s Justin Roberts. I wonder why he didn’t announce the first match. Anyway… I have no interest in this 6-man. I think AEW panders to New Japan way too much. Like you, I don’t follow New Japan, so I just don’t care about this. Here’s Jay White… wearing white. I actually do really like him. I think he should’ve given WWE a shot though. With HHH (supposedly) leading creative, Jay White could’ve done well there. This feels like a filler match, which is crazy considering who’s in it. I would’ve rather seen Omega vs Hangman one on one though. Surprised Takeshita got the pin and as you said, it sucked the air right out of the place. Bad call on that finish imo.

Here come the Young Bucks… wearing white. I was expecting FTR to come out paying tribute to Bret and Davey since they’re so high on their match at Wembley in ‘92. I know it’s weird, but it bothers me that Cash always wears grey boots. Speaking of Cash, I do wonder what is going to happen with his arrest. Waving a gun during a road rage incident. If he was also eating McDonald’s as he was driving, it’s just the most American thing ever. Good match, genuinely surprised FTR picked up the win. I’m not a Bucks fan, I think they’re overrated as hell but I still expected them to win.

Stadium Stampede time. BCC’s look is really cool. Santana and Ortiz… wearing white. Some cool spots here. Penta almost ate it pretty good when the ladder broke. Surprised Orange Cassidy got the win here. They’re really continuing his push, which is cool I guess. I’m beginning to really dislike Mox though. I get that he likes the hardcore style, I just think his schtick is getting old.

Women’s match. AEW clearly doesn’t give a shit about the women’s division. It surprises me that Mercedes Mone is apparently headed there because of that fact. More on that in a bit. Saraya coming out with her family is pretty cool, giving them a chance to be seen on a huge stage. Definitely teasing a breakup of The Outcasts even though they’re a relatively new faction. Saraya winning in the UK was the right call. Not a great match but did what it was supposed to I guess?

Like you, I can’t believe Sting is still doing this. Sting and Darby coming out to Seek & Destroy is awesome. Huge late 90’s vibes there. The crazy thing is Sting isn’t taking it easy. He took some pretty rough bumps in this match. Darby’s coffin drop on the… coffin was brutal looking. I hope Swerve has a bright future. WWE fucked up letting him go. He’s really, really good. Sting and Darby winning here made sense. It seems people expected Edge to show up and confront Christian here. I just don’t see it. To me, Edge is a WWE lifer and I don’t think WWE is going to let him go. I think they’ll make big offers to keep him if he’s going to continue wrestling. I know he wants to wrestle Christian in his last match, but I think that happens in WWE at some point. We’ll see. Besides, seeing “Adam Copeland” come out to Metalingus in AEW just seems wrong.

Jericho vs Ospreay. Jericho using backing tracks during his intro much to Sebastian Bach’s chagrin. I really don’t like this asshole lol. Will Ospreay… wearing white. Ospreay could be the best in the world right now. His matches are always so entertaining. He carried Jericho through a lot of this match. Him winning in the UK is the right call and it looks to be setting up a Jericho vs Guevara feud, so that Jericho can continue leeching off young blood for his fountain of youth. Definitely a better match than I expected.

House of Black with the look of the night for sure… wearing white. Nice tribute to Bray Wyatt with the lantern. I love everything about House of Black, both as individuals and as a group. They’re three of the best imo and they work so well together. I think they’ve brought prestige to the trios titles and I think it was the wrong call to have them lose here. Oh well.

Main event time. Adam Cole… wearing white. MJF… also wearing white. Really, really solid match here. The ref taking a panama sunrise was great. These two put on a hell of a match. When Roddy came out, I thought for sure he was going to turn on Cole. MJF saying they need a winner in “fucking Wembley” might’ve been pop of the night. I really expected Cole to win this but I’m ok with the finish. Keeping them together is probably good business since their story is really popular right now. I mean, they were just on Hot Ones for fuck’s sake. I love how they go back and forth teasing who’s going to turn on the other. This story could probably go for a while. Seeing MJF as a sympathetic babyface at times is weird lol. But I think he’s proving that he could be a good babyface if needed.

As a whole, great show. I expected more surprises since Tony Khan seems to like doing that and there was no better place than Wembley to pull out all the stops. If you count Mercedes as a surprise, then I guess. I don’t, as I think she could be the most overrated female wrestler of all time. All this talk about her is a bit much. I don’t think she’s special. I saw a guy on Reddit say something like “I hope she wrestles in AEW, WWE never seemed to know what to do with her.” Really? She was a 6 time WWE women’s champion. She MAIN EVENTED FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA against Bianca. She was constantly in top tier feuds and storylines. What else do you want? I look at it this way; people forget wrestling is a job. If I went into work and my boss asked me to do something and I told him no, my ass is getting fired. She goes into work, is asked to do something, cries and carries on, takes her ball and goes home. And people applaud her for that. When Austin did the same in the early 2000s, people couldn’t stop talking shit about him for it, and even he admitted it was a huge mistake to do that. Yet when Mercedes does the same thing, she’s looked at as some sort of hero. I think she buys her own hype and bullshit and I don’t believe she’s worth it. She has proven that she will just leave when she doesn’t get her way. It’s not a good look. And as I said before, AEW’s women’s division is a sinking ship. She’s better off staying in Japan if she wants time to wrestle.

The Punk drama is just… so expected. No matter who started it, trouble just follows this guy. My fandom for Punk is waning. I think his legacy is going to be as a troublemaker and nothing else. He takes his role as “locker room leader” way too seriously. The Undertaker never called himself a leader. He had the respect of his peers, so much so, that it was just known. Nobody had to say it. With Punk, it’s like he’s trying so hard to be seen as a respected and feared leader when in reality most people just don’t like him. If I’m Jack Perry preparing spots for my match and Punk tells me I can’t do something, my reaction is probably “are you my boss?” I can absolutely see why Jack Perry took a shot at Punk. People are getting fed up with him. He keeps overstepping his boundaries and won’t stay in his lane. Now it appears that both men are suspended pending investigation. How many times is this going to happen before Tony Khan just realizes that Punk isn’t worth the hassle? This is what happens when you don’t have structure in place and you just let everybody do whatever they want.

 

[DE4life]

Joe is basically the guy that really got me back into wrestling and TNA in 2005. I watched a match between him and AJ Styles and was blown away by how brutal Joe's style was. As it turned out he essentially really was just beating the shit out of AJ, lmao, but it was awesome. Been a big fan ever since. Dude has such a great presence and is a fantastic promo too. A shame that TNA totally dropped the ball with him after 2007, and he never really did much on the WWE main roster either. Although in that instance I will grant them some leeway as he was injured fairly frequently. Good to see him still going strong regardless.

The Pepsi Plunge did look quite shit, but then so does a lot of Punk's offence nowadays. He's never been a great technical wrestler, but I'd go as far as to say he's bad nowadays. He's relying solely on his aura and reputation to get him through most matches. There are a few exceptions - the dog collar match with MJF (and that feud in general) was very good. Post-injury he seems to have lost another step though.

The ladder spot with Penta was unfortunate, but they did well to recover anyway. There was another spot in the corner, forget who it was, and they just totally slipped from the top turnbuckle. Again, they completed the spot, but a bit of a shame. Agree on the hardcore stuff, it does absolutely nothing for me. There's too much of this stuff in AEW, it just loses its appeal when it's done so often. Mox's stuff just veers towards gross now, it's like he intentionally wants to mutilate himself and it's uncomfortable to watch. Also for a supposedly elite group the BCC lose way too much. Yuta is essentially a glorified jobber at this point.

I'd be fine with the Outcasts splitting up as the faction sucks, but yeah, the women's match only getting 9 minutes was disappointing. The ending was cool though.

A note on the music, I appreciate that AEW are willing to splurge on licensing songs for big events. Queen and Metallica being the big ones on this show. It just helps the product present as big time. TNA/Impact or various other smaller promotions would have just had rip off versions rather than the real thing. I like that Khan just says fuck it and gets the real songs.

I'd also be surprised if Edge turns up in AEW... but then, I had Big Show and Mark Henry down as WWE lifers, so who knows. Edge obviously still has more left in the tank than either of them did, but I can see TK throwing some serious money at Edge to come in - especially as Khan knows Edge would have the right attitude and not be a primadonna jerkoff like a certain other big contract star.

Can't say i'd care much for a Jericho/Guevara feud, but I think Jericho should take some time off TV. Feels like he's always there and has done practically everything there is to do at this point. I'm not sure his name is the huge draw it was at the beginning, so some time out of the spotlight might do him and AEW some good. I don't have a problem with him being there, he just feels a bit stale.

I also would have had HoB retain, especially after the Bray tribute. The story was set up for The Acclaimed to win, though, and there probably wasn't any point stretching it out. They wanted the big pop with the homegrown lads getting the win, and I guess that's fair enough.

I've seen a lot of disappointment over the main event finish, but as I said during my live watchalong, I really liked the ending. There's definitely still mileage in the Cole/MJF story, and the fans don't seem to want them to break up. I think it was the right call and executed in a fantastic way. MJF was also hilarious in the post-event media scrum, the guy doesn't give a single fuck and it's superb. Khan looking over every so often like 'wut' when MJF talks about banging rats or something, lmao.

MJF as a babyface is totally over with the crowd, no question, but it's such a drastic pivot to his previous character. He's retaining some of his heel characteristics, but some of the babyface stuff flies in the face of everything he built his character up to be before now. He does it incredibly well, but yeah, for me it's a bit jarring and difficult to forget the stuff he's done in-character previously. Evidently the fans are all for it though, so AEW might as well lean into that.

As for Punk, yeah, at this point the guy is just a toxic headcase. I think he's actually worse since he came back. It's the old saying of if you come across assholes all day, you're probably the asshole. Punk is now suspended again and will miss All Out. It's an absolute joke. The blame ultimately lies with Tony Khan as an owner who is unable to control Punk and is just sitting back and watching Punk poison the locker room for the second time. What's worse is that Punk isn't even that good in the ring nowadays, and he's clearly not a big draw for Collision, which averages about 500k a week. I'm not convinced they'd do significantly less without him. I guess now he's suspended we'll find out.

As you say, he so desperately wants to be a leader, but he comes across more like a tyrant. Banning people he doesn't like from "his" show, getting in the faces of people with lesser reputations, cutting unscripted promos where he knows the other person won't respond. It's obvious he's carrying an even bigger chip on his shoulder since he returned, and he just wants to surround himself with people who will kiss his ass. He's become everything he claimed to hate back in the day. Truth is though he was probably always like this, he just didn't have the power to show it before, and projected his insecurities onto others by pretending to hate the very thing he really wanted to be.

Perry should probably have known better than to stir drama on the biggest show of the year - do that shit somewhere else if you have to. It's not professional and is a childish way to deal with things. He's only 26 though, basically still a kid and he's going to make mistakes and bad decisions occasionally. Punk is 44, at this point in his life he has no excuses for behaving in such a juvenile manner. Fact is he's a narcissistic guy with so much money he can do whatever he wants with little fear of reprisal, knowing he has the owner in his back pocket. His punishment for eviscerating the EVPs and embarrassing his boss in a press conference, then getting into a backstage fight with said EVPs, was to get his own show where he can ban whoever he wants from showing up, and have his boss chant "CM Punk" as he returned for his debut. No wonder he feels bulletproof.

Khan needs to grow a pair, stop being a mark and negotiate a release for Punk from his contract. It isn't working, and it's never going to work. Punk needs to leave pro wrestling behind. His legacy is already irrevocably stained - just go before it gets any worse.

 

[The Grayfox]

I’ve seen a few things over the last couple of days about the Punk situation that are interesting. One being that it was reported (which I must have missed at the time) that back in 2021, at a writers meeting, somebody brought up a story/plan to bring CM Punk back and HHH immediately said “not a chance.” I do think he’s always been this way. When he went to AEW, somebody from WWE said “he’s their problem now.” He knows he can walk all over Tony Khan. When he was in WWE, he couldn’t get away with this shit. I mean, when Punk returned from his hiatus/injury, supposedly Tony Khan stood up in gorilla and started chanting “CM Punk!” How fucking cringeworthy is that? Can you imagine Vince McMahon standing up with his headset on and chanting “Lesnar!”? It’s absurd.

Tony Khan needs to fire him or he’s risking losing people who will eventually get so tired of this shit that they just leave the company. Punk is not worth the issues that he’s creating. It is completely unprofessional and just makes AEW look bush league. Apparently the Miro report isn’t true, as Punk, Miro and Brody King showed up at the arena together. It was said that Brody put his hand through a wall after the incident out of frustration. We’re going to see more of this kind of shit the longer this keeps up. People are getting annoyed and frustrated and it is overshadowing anything else the company does. This should have been a monumental moment for the company, people talking about how great the show was, etc. and instead the only thing people are talking about is CM Punk going off the rails yet again.

Tony Khan needs to stop being a fucking mark (I know, I hate saying it), and be a boss. Letting people walk all over you isn’t a sign of good leadership. I don’t know how anyone can respect the guy at this point.

 

[DE4life]

The drama keeps on expanding. Now apparently CM Punk ripped into Tony Khan as well. Dude seemingly wants to get fired.

 

[The Grayfox]

Apparently there is video footage of the Punk/Perry incident. Who knows if we'll actually see it or not, but it sounds like it was a complete mess. Punk got in Tony Khan's face and said he was quitting. As much as the wrestling community (myself included) makes fun of this shit, how is Punk going to get in Tony Khan's face when Khan has been his biggest advocate? He didn't fire him after Brawl Out but instead brought him back, created a new show and basically split the roster so that the show Punk was on would be full of people he gets along with. And then you go and scream at him in front of the locker room when Jack Perry is the one who went off script and took a shot at Punk. It's just a massive clusterfuck.

I guess I understand the hesitance to fire Punk because he is still somewhat of a marquee name and when you don't have many of those to begin with, it's probably hard to pull the trigger on that.

 

[DE4life]

AEW have finally done what they should have done last year and terminated Punk's contract. With the way he was behaving it was almost like he wanted to get fired, honestly.

 

[DE4life]

"Another version, and this would be a neutral source who was not a wrestler but was there and witnessed it and his version was that right after Perry came to the back, Punk went nose-to-nose with him aggressively and asked him if he had a problem. That person said Perry said he was just looking to get heat as a heel. Punk shoved him hard, Perry got in his face and in that version Punk sucker punched him and went for a choke. People immediately broke it up and Khan was yelling at Punk to let him go.

That person said that once they were separated, Punk lunged in Khan’s direction but a number of people got in his way while Punk was yelling “I Quit.” Monitors were knocked down during all this. Joe was very upset and went to calm Punk down."

If this is actually how it went down, JHC. What a lunatic.

 

[The Grayfox]

I’m actually very surprised that Tony Khan did it. I also wouldn’t be at all surprised if he comes back at some point down the line.

 

[DE4life]

I honestly don't think there's any chance of him returning to AEW now. There's burning bridges and then there's blowing them up with dynamite (no pun intended). I know it's wrestling and anything can happen, but from a legal standpoint it would be extremely difficult to justify bringing him back after two assaults on co-workers and making an aggressive lunge towards your boss. I just don't see any route back for him now. Khan was a huge fan and one of his biggest supporters, and he actually went for him. Idiocy on a staggering level.

Also can't see him returning to WWE for as long as Triple H is around. He won't want that headache and has never gotten along with Punk to begin with.

 

[The Grayfox]

Yeah, I agree. Stranger things have happened in wrestling though. That mantra of “never say never” really applies to pro wrestling. People said Bret would never go back to WWE. They said Warrior wouldn’t (multiple times). They said Sammartino wouldn’t. The list goes on. I think it’s highly more likely that we’d see a hall of fame induction than an actual run however. But then he did show up at Raw and talk to Triple H not long ago…

 

[DE4life]

Tony Khan opens Collision by saying he feared for his safety, his security and his life at All In during the Punk incident, essentially confirming that Punk did lunge at him.

Honestly, it's clear that Punk needs serious help. That is completely deranged behaviour. It must have been real red mist shit, because there are literally no upsides to trying to attack your billionaire boss. Zero. If Punk can get so insanely angry at so little he needs to seek treatment.

 

[The Grayfox]

** PAYBACK SPOILERS BELOW **

Supposedly Punk's frustrations came to a head after a week of shit happening that he didn't like. There was the Perry incident a week before Wembley, then Punk thought he got stiffed when he got to the airport and nobody picked him up, when in reality, no travel was secured for anyone. Then news came out today that a meeting was set between Punk and The Elite and The Elite canceled it at the last minute when reports came out that Punk had an issue with Perry, so word is that Punk was fed up. And honestly I can absolutely understand the frustration, he just didn't handle it well at all. It's a damn shame that things didn't work out.

Dirtsheets reporting that Punk's firing was a hot topic at Payback tonight. No surprise there. I'm telling you... I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Punk back in WWE, especially with the merger coming up and Punk having a decent relationship with Dana White. Slim chance maybe, but I'm calling that we see Punk in WWE again within a year.

Speaking of Payback, decent show. Zayn/Owens dropping the titles I assume means that they will feud for the 10th time, which is fine. Big missed opportunity to not give Shinsuke a title run here I thought. Especially with the cool intro he got and with Muta sitting in the front row. I really, really wanted him to win it. After the events with Cody "bringing Jey back", maybe Jey will get it.

 

[DE4life]

Honestly at this point I just hope Punk gets the help he needs. I think he needs to stay away from wrestling as it clearly brings out the absolute worst in him. I'm not sure exactly what it was that flipped the switch, as before the Hangman stuff started he was generally liked backstage, but once that ball started rolling down the hill it just kept picking up speed. Even after nearly a year off and being given an incredible amount of concessions to keep him happy, Punk came straight back as a confrontational, aggressive and unprofessional worker. It sucks because he's one of the best talkers in the game and can build a feud like no other, but when you start causing genuine legal issues, that's where the line has to be drawn. That's also where I think any WWE return will stumble. Bringing in a guy who is known to be a bit of trouble in the locker room occasionally? Sure. Bringing back a guy who got fired for assaulting his co-workers multiple times and went after his boss (Meltzer is now saying they were being too kind by just saying Punk "lunged" at Khan... wtf)? I think that takes the risk factor too high.

The only comparable situation I can think of is Bret/Vince, but that was at a very different time and also extremely different circumstances.