Line 6 Helix - pod replacement

As for the price being exorbitant, it far less than HALF the price of an Axe-FX XL ($2500) with a Liquid Foot Pro foot controller with configurable LEDs above every button ($1300).

$3800 vs. $1500. Yeah, what was Line 6 thinking by charging so damn much.....

Fairly or unfairly, people are judging this product based on the quality of Line 6's past modeling sims, which, let's reiterate, are terrible. Add that to the fact that they haven't said virtually anything about new/improved/updated sims and don't seem to have shifted their engineering philosophy or team and I think we're all skeptical that it's going to sound anywhere near as good as, for instance, Recabinet, Revalver, TSE, or even LePou's shit, all of which hover around free to $100. So then you're left with a $1500 foot controller. If it comes out and the modeling is amazing, whatever, I'll eat my words I guess, but there is zilch to indicate that that's the case here. And I don't know much about LED displays, but something tells me they shouldn't cost that much.
 
By the way you talk seems that line 6 is paying you or you work for them because $1500 IT´S A FUCKING ROBBERY.

I don't work for Line 6 or even own a single Line 6 product right now. I don't have a Variax, Pod, Stagesource, wireless....nothing.

I do have a fairly objective mind, however, and when I see a company stuffing (what they claim to be) pro-level modeling, a super capable recording interface with reamping, multi-IR loading, and more into a foot controller that is essentially a Liquid Foot Pro, but charging a little more than it costs to just buy a Liquid Foot Pro and get none of that stuff....I gotta wonder why people are turning their nose up at the price.

Isn't the whole thing about the Axe or Kemper that they are actually BARGAINs when you use them to replace entire pedal boards and rooms full of heads and cabs that we've spent $3000-$5000 or more on over the years?

Why can't that same logic apply here? I haven't heard Helix beyond the demo yet. So I don't know for absolute sure if the modeling is truly a cut above. But I don't have any reason to not take them at their word. They're spending a lot more on DSP for this unit, so it would be asinine to not greatly improve the algorithms that go with it. Otherwise, they could stick with the chip in the HD line now and pocket more money.
 
Fairly or unfairly, people are judging this product based on the quality of Line 6's past modeling sims, which, let's reiterate, are terrible. Add that to the fact that they haven't said virtually anything about new/improved/updated sims and don't seem to have shifted their engineering philosophy or team and I think we're all skeptical that it's going to sound anywhere near as good as, for instance, Recabinet, Revalver, TSE, or even LePou's shit, all of which hover around free to $100. So then you're left with a $1500 foot controller. If it comes out and the modeling is amazing, whatever, I'll eat my words I guess, but there is zilch to indicate that that's the case here. And I don't know much about LED displays, but something tells me they shouldn't cost that much.

Line 6's past products are soooo terrible that they've been immortalized on entire albums from Devin Townsend, Animals as Leaders, Meshuggah, Twelve Foot Ninja, Monuments, and so on and so forth. A kazillion other bands use them live to this day to reliably and ably gig. That's terrible?

They HAVE said plenty about the new modeling technology. They've said they're modeling at a component level now, which they have never done before. They've greatly increased the DSP. All of the amps are ground up recreations with the exception of new versions of the Elektrik, Doom, and Epic sims. This isn't secret info. They've had reps (and I aint one, nor am I affiliated or paid by the company in any way, shape or form) answering questions in multiple forums all of yesterday.

I absolutely recognize and use those quality VST sims out there. It's a sim that runs on a computer I paid hundreds for, and can't be gigged without a lot of cables, and interface I paid hundreds for and a foot controller I would pay hundreds more for. And even then, it wouldn't be as configurable or convenient as what Helix offers.

So, yes, if you're strictly a bedroom or studio guitarist, this is probably not worth it. But neither Axe-FX or Kemper would be worth it either....
 
They HAVE said plenty about the new modeling technology. They've said they're modeling at a component level now, which they have never done before. They've greatly increased the DSP.

So they're catching up to 5 year old tech rather than relying on 20 year old tech. :lol:

Line 6 makes *okay* stuff. They really need to wow people at this price point.
 
So they're catching up to 5 year old tech rather than relying on 20 year old tech. :lol:

Line 6 makes *okay* stuff. They really need to wow people at this price point.

I absolutely agree with all you just said, which is why I own none of their products currently.

This may change that.
 
Line 6's past products are soooo terrible that they've been immortalized on entire albums from Devin Townsend, Animals as Leaders, Meshuggah, Twelve Foot Ninja, Monuments, and so on and so forth. A kazillion other bands use them live to this day to reliably and ably gig. That's terrible?
Well what you say definitely has merit, many of those guys (specifically Devin Townsend, Animals as Leaders, and Meshuggah) all moved on to the Axe-FX after it caught on. Twelve Foot Ninja and Monuments still use Pod though. I know Joey uses it, but honestly, that's his sound now. And you can also bring up Andrew Wade, but from what I know, he only uses it when it's requested and admitted that it's the worst sounding sim technology these days (Pod Farm).

Remember that this is a recording forum, so in most cases, we talk in context of the studio and not live. Honestly, I've seen guys use Marshall Mode Four's with a MG cabinet and tbh, no one really notices live because half the time you are running through a shit PA with an even shittier engineer anyway, not too mention, everyone's drunk and just there for a good time. It's not like the standards are very high live IMO.

A trend I often see is that many of these djent/progressive bands (like Periphery as well) who started out with the x3 moved on after the Axe-FX came out because ultimately the Pod series became stagnant, outdated, and honestly, lack luster. At the time it was decent, but to say that Line 6 products aren't terrible (in the context of today, which is what most people are obviously considering when they say Line 6 is awful) today when there are much superior options IMO (such as Recabinet, TSE) or Kemper/Axe-FX, I just can't see it.

I never used a Pod HD, but from the clips I've heard it just doesn't measure up to the competing options. Obviously it's cheaper, but if we are talking purely about what sounds good (or terrible) and what doesn't, then it obviously gets shit on by Kemper/Axe-FX and I'd even argue by TSE/Recabinet which are both cheaper than the Pod HD. Now, can the Pod HD be usable? I'd argue yes, but is it the best option for price/performance? I'd argue no.

Honestly in the end, when I used to use Pod Farm for my tracks like four years ago I was able to get usable sounds, but then when I started using other alternatives, notably Recabinet and TSE I just found that I got results quicker, which is what turns me off Line 6 products. This became even more pronounced when I started borrowing my friends Kemper. Especially with Pod Farm, I always had to cut odd frequencies, specifically in the highs, to make it sit right whereas TSE x50 just sat right very quickly.

Like I said though, I'd like to hear the Helix before blatantly writing it off because it says Line 6. I'd love to be surprised.
 
Having moved on doesn't erase those recordings from their discographies. Modeling getting progressively better doesn't mean that stuff wasn't good when they used it. It was.

Sure there are plenty of better options than a POD these days. That's why Line 6 is releasing this product, I would guess. It sure isn't to sell a kazillion to the masses.

I love Recabinet and TSE. Use 'em all the time. But it's not fair to combine their software to Line 6's complete package. They're small shops who have very few "legacy" features to account for and don't have to design hardware at a price point that will satisfy the accountants and run their algorithms.

Line 6 is a much larger ship, and they'll never move as nimbly. But they've been developing this for quite awhile, and hopefully it can make them more competitive in the high end. They certainly listened to user feedback WAAAY moreso than any consumer modeling hardware company out there (i.e. BOSS, Zoom, Digitech, etc.).

Ultimately, it lives and dies by how it sounds. All we have is one "meh" demo from Sweetwater who do "meh" demos for most products. We'll just have to see....
 
guys. it loads impulses. it's guaranteed to sound awesome so long as the "feel" of the amp models is decent and you know how to exploit the limits of IRs.

they've solved the biggest issue they ever had
 
Imagine if Line 6 allowed a VST loader so TSE x50 or Recabinet amps could be loaded in? That would knock it out of the park.
 
Line 6 fine tuning their amp modeling

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I was not expecting to care about a new line 6 product but this looks legitimately cool.

I bought the HD500 a few years back and have used it in 4cm to control channel switching, and for effects with my EVH 50w. It works brilliantly in this capacity but I never use the amp sims and it kind of sucks tone and is noisy. Ive managed to dial it in so that its a non-factor for practice and live performance but I wouldn't record it with the HD in the signal path. Which is too bad really.

If it ever starts showing up used sub $1000 Ill probably pick it up IF they have managed to fix the noise and general tone suck. I dont think the asking price is bad for what it does but I sincerely doubt it would replace micing real amps for recording for me thus negating alot of its usefulness. When I do want to use an amp sim I just go ITB for ease of use, and I dont feel like X50 or Recabinet is a compromise tonally. Still Im happy to see L6 making a real attempt to play in the big leagues.