Looking for a second Amp (after a Diezel)...Help!

[findingthesound]

Hi everybody,
I already have a great Diezel Einstein that I love, but I need an other amp for metal. I have a peavey rockmaster too.
I'm mostly recording in my studio (TG2,R121,SM57...).
I don't know what to choose between a Dual RECTO and a 6505, or maybe an AXE-FX ULTRA.
I will buy a mesa 4X12 cab too. Any cabs better than other? Rectifier Standard 4x12, Mesa Boogie Road King 4x12, 2X12, SLANT?
Have about 2000 € to spend, so I'm going to buy used.


What amp will be the best complement to the Diezel?
Mostly record melodeath/metalcore/rock/stoner.
Thank you!

 

[AHChris]

5150/6505 w/ Mesa Oversized

/thread

 

[Lasse Lammert]

In that case I'd go with the Recto...
the 6505 sounds like a more aggressive/better Einstein, and since you have the Eini already I'd go with a Recto for flavour

 

[findingthesound]

Ok Lasse, that's what I thought too, but wasn't sure.
Did you compared the Eini side by side with a 6505?
What did you dislike on the Einstein?
I have change the tubes for 6L6 and some sovteks in the preamp and it sound much much better now for me; can't stand the EL34/tungsol in the amp when I bought it: too harsh/mid sounding. Now It have tight bass better than a mesa without the OD808 trick, but with a boosted marshall 800 mids/highs, so I understand that it should be more in the 6505 side. I just think the diezel is maybe a bit "dry" sounding, not as "liquid gain"/sweet mids as a 6505...Don't know what is the best thing when you do layers of amp sound...
I'm trying to make my own tone, but if the 6505 is clearly better, I may trade my Eini...
Or do you think that just using the rockmaster in the diezel or mesa amp will be ok? or do I really need the head?
I mean, I know that the sound of the recto depend a lot of the interaction between preamp and amp, is it the same for the 6505?

 

[AHChris]

Just my 2 cents on the Einstein: I had the opportunity to try it out extensively and for my taste it was always too dull sounding. No brightness whatsoever (or at least not enough for my taste).

 

[findingthesound]

Yes find it dry/dull sounding. Always presence to the max and and high near. Difficult to make it cut the mix without lots of equing. I tought it maybe was the cab I use atm (orange 1X12). Good to ear what other think about this amp. As it's very difficult to get one, I had to buy it without playing it. Is the VH4 better or is it difficult to make sit in a mix too?

 

[Lasse Lammert]

the Eini sounds too "controlled/held back" to me...kinda not brutal enopugh.
also had I always problems with the center frequencies of the bass and resonance knobs, they were too low or too high (more like low mids instead of bass)...so whenever I wanted to dial out the boomyness the bassend got too thin.
The Eini is definitely not a bad amp!!! I always just didn't feel the same "slap in the face"/"push against the chest" that the 6505 had.

the overall sound character of those two amps is pretty similar, the 6505 just seems more aggressive and has more mean bark....whily the Eini sounds more "cultivated" (is that even a word?).
not a bad thing...just a matter of taste

 

[grind_vince]

Yep , take a look here : http://www.nos-amps.com/index.php?op=edito

 

[findingthesound]

whily the Eini sounds more "cultivated" (is that even a word?).
not a bad thing...just a matter of taste

"cultivated" is the word to describe einstein!

I understand what you say, that's this "classy/modern/retro vibe" that I love in the Einstein, it's the opposit of the "vulgar power" sound from an Engl for exemple, which one I find best suited for blackmetal for exemple.
It'll be difficult to mix due to those frequencies chosen on this amp, but in the end the sound with a recto will be cool and unique. That's a good thing I think.

I think that's the same amp mix on the last metallica album, no?
I can't see another exemple of this amp mix...

 

[BLUElightCory]

I have all three of those amps in my studio pretty often and I don't think you can go wrong with the 5150/6505 or a Rectifier. They'll both get the job done.

The Einstein tends to do big, thick rock tones really well, but it's not super tight-sounding for music that has a lot of muting. The 5150 or Recto will definitely get you closer to that type of sound.

 

[findingthesound]

Thank you.
I have a great deal for a three channel dual recto.
...

 

[findingthesound]

also had I always problems with the center frequencies of the bass and resonance knobs, they were too low or too high (more like low mids instead of bass)...so whenever I wanted to dial out the boomyness the bassend got too thin.

100% agreed with you.
I've just got an idea; how about modding the knobs on the eini to make it more useable?
I've seen some dude do that for the presence knob one the third recto channel to get the same sound that the second channel... And that's why the third channel is more aggressive.
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=36172

So it may be possible to mod the einstein to make it more effective...
What do you think about it?
After all, the einstein was made in a "vintage spirit" so the knobs should be different than on the VH4 or the Herbert for exemple, and less useable for "modern sound".

Yep , take a look here : http://www.nos-amps.com/index.php?op=edito

Salut et merci! je connais NOS et ces amplis ont l'air de tuer mais comme le diezel a déjà un son particulier je préfère partir sur du classic comme le mesa pour un second ampli...

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

How about an Engl Savage...

or...

trading in your Einstein + cash for a Herbert?

The Herbert can do 75% of the Einstein's tone, plus it get much more evil sounding than the Einstein ever can, even with a boost.

 

[findingthesound]

Just bought a brand new 6505 for 800€! That the price for a used one here in France!
I've tried lots of amps with some friends: recto cool but not enough "in your face", still have the best sound for pop/rock stuff. I find mesa a bit "old school" for me. For metal the 6505 is the best for my taste, punchy tight with good edge but sweet sound. Exactly what I was looking for.
So now, let's go recording! I have no excuse anymore to get a good sound!

I'm trying to achieve a tone like soilwork "figure number 5"/ stabbing the drama.
Any eq info apart the OD808 trick?

 

[findingthesound]

How about an Engl Savage...

or...

trading in your Einstein + cash for a Herbert?

The Herbert can do 75% of the Einstein's tone, plus it get much more evil sounding than the Einstein ever can, even with a boost.

I'll keep my einstein for now, trying to see how it works with the 6505, maybe trade it for a herbert later. Did you compared them?