Love

[Norsemaiden]

I like that we have all these women around here.

So, I was wondering what the two of you: Norsemaiden and Susperia, think about love? Just how important is it to you women?

I've noticed alot of men, are really into love, or or actively looking for it. In many ways, I think men are more susceptable than women--an observation.

Also,there are a number of women, that think of sex exactly like men. They like to have it, and they do not form a emotional relationship with the man they are having sex with. Hence this is for the most part, the same idea behind our prostitution jokes. The difference is, most women, even ugly ones, can have this unattached sex if they want to; whereas most men, especially older or clumsy ones, are either forced to amuse themselves on the internet with porn, or pay for it.

When you say that a lot of men are really into love or actively looking for it, that is an interesting observation which I agree with. In fact men are softer and more vulnerable than women in that they do seem to fall in love quicker and stronger. Women can go out with someone just to pass the time, for a bit of companionship and some snogs and possible sex, but hold back on falling in love. A guy can hold back on love for a brief affair or a one-night-stand, but gets emotionally attatched in the longer term arrangement I described. This is only a generalisation, and maybe a little personal experience.
Everyone's got their own tactics, but I have always prefered to think that I wouldn't properly fall in love with someone who had not fallen in love with me first. That could apply to just anyone who is into being in control though, and I'm not sure if I'm kidding myself!
Most women would not want to start a family with someone who had been to prostitutes, although sleeping with a man who had would be less problematic. So a man devalues himself by going to whores (in the eyes of women) in the same way as an indescriminately promiscuous woman who has slept with many men would be devalued in the eyes of a man. This may come as a shock to some of you. Women do have the concept of "man slut" now, and prefer someone who is not necessarily a virgin, but who has only had about a maximum of one sexual relationship a year since adulthood.
Do you agree with this Susperia?

Love is very important in a long-term relationship. Regular sex is essential to maintaining this in its ideal form. A guy who's getting sex every day (except if you are ill or menstruating) will be too exhaused to need it elsewhere. Another term for this is "pair bonding".

I have mentioned in a previous thread about the connection between circumcision and dissatisfaction with sex. Circumcision = lack of lubrication, making it uncomfortable for the woman, also uncomfortable masturbation which is frustrating and less stimulation during sex generally. There is a strong tendency for a drive to look for increasingly new and bizarre ways to seek the evasive satisfaction. Hence the large number of Jews in whorehouses.

 

[dargormudshark]

It's the paradox of needing

 

[Susperia]

Most women would not want to start a family with someone who had been to prostitutes, although sleeping with a man who had would be less problematic. So a man devalues himself by going to whores (in the eyes of women) in the same way as an indescriminately promiscuous woman who has slept with many men would be devalued in the eyes of a man. This may come as a shock to some of you. Women do have the concept of "man slut" now, and prefer someone who is not necessarily a virgin, but who has only had about a maximum of one sexual relationship a year since adulthood.
Do you agree with this Susperia?

I agree with you completely Norsemaiden, though I would not have been able to put it into words as well as you. I personally would not even want to be in a relationship with a man who sleeps around a lot in general. (I like that we are starting to recognize that men can be sluts, too *Wink*). I would have very little respect for a man who is cheap enough, immoral enough, and weak-willed enough to sleep with a prostitute.

On the subject of love, I don't know if I have anything wise to say about it. I'm only 20 years old and have only been in a serious relationship with one man since high school. I've loved him for a long time though, and I know I will continue to love him for a long time.

For me personally, when I fall in love (which I guess I have only once so far) it's the whole deal--- I become extremely infatuated with that person, I develop obsessions with people I hold in high regard easily, and I get hurt badly if they disappoint me in any way---because I hold them up so highly.

Undeniably I believe in love, in fact I think I'm one of those people that has too much to give, hah. I form deep attatchments to friends, animals, etc... And constantly need love in return. Though this may be because I'm still young... I just stopped being a teenager recently, yet I still feel like one, you know.

When I was younger I tried to fool myself I didn't need anyone, that friends and attatchments to parents, animals and men weren't important. I was very unhappy ----I just might be making up for it now.

 

[derek]

I find it interesting that sex often becomes better the more you know someone, the more you appreciate and understand them. So perhaps full sexual gratification is only possible when in a loving relationship.

I'm interested as to whether there is a link between being in a relationship (or not!) and love. I have a sneaky suspicion that many of those in relationships believe it exists and us single or newly single men/women have our doubts.

 

[speed]

When you say that a lot of men are really into love or actively looking for it, that is an interesting observation which I agree with. In fact men are softer and more vulnerable than women in that they do seem to fall in love quicker and stronger. Women can go out with someone just to pass the time, for a bit of companionship and some snogs and possible sex, but hold back on falling in love. A guy can hold back on love for a brief affair or a one-night-stand, but gets emotionally attatched in the longer term arrangement I described. This is only a generalisation, and maybe a little personal experience.
Everyone's got their own tactics, but I have always prefered to think that I wouldn't properly fall in love with someone who had not fallen in love with me first. That could apply to just anyone who is into being in control though, and I'm not sure if I'm kidding myself!
Most women would not want to start a family with someone who had been to prostitutes, although sleeping with a man who had would be less problematic. So a man devalues himself by going to whores (in the eyes of women) in the same way as an indescriminately promiscuous woman who has slept with many men would be devalued in the eyes of a man. This may come as a shock to some of you. Women do have the concept of "man slut" now, and prefer someone who is not necessarily a virgin, but who has only had about a maximum of one sexual relationship a year since adulthood.
Do you agree with this Susperia?

Love is very important in a long-term relationship. Regular sex is essential to maintaining this in its ideal form. A guy who's getting sex every day (except if you are ill or menstruating) will be too exhaused to need it elsewhere. Another term for this is "pair bonding".

I have mentioned in a previous thread about the connection between circumcision and dissatisfaction with sex. Circumcision = lack of lubrication, making it uncomfortable for the woman, also uncomfortable masturbation which is frustrating and less stimulation during sex generally. There is a strong tendency for a drive to look for increasingly new and bizarre ways to seek the evasive satisfaction. Hence the large number of Jews in whorehouses.

I follow you up to the circumcision part. Everything I've read, clearly states, circumsicision adds to sexual gratification, and it has obvious health benefits for men. Now of course, I am not a woman who has tried both foreskin and circumcised; and my foreskin was lopped off as a baby, so I cant give you a before and after either.

I dont understand the masturbation part either. You say it is frustrating and less stimulation. Is that if one masturbates, or if one is circumsized and masturbates?

And you know, almost every american male for the last fifty or sixty years, has had their foreskin lopped off as a baby. So, why are jews singled out?

And yes, you are right, women can go out with someone to pass the time, or to just go out. I think my current relationship has this problem.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I follow you up to the circumcision part. Everything I've read, clearly states, circumsicision adds to sexual gratification, and it has obvious health benefits for men. Now of course, I am not a woman who has tried both foreskin and circumcised; and my foreskin was lopped off as a baby, so I cant give you a before and after either.

I dont understand the masturbation part either. You say it is frustrating and less stimulation. Is that if one masturbates, or if one is circumsized and masturbates?

And you know, almost every american male for the last fifty or sixty years, has had their foreskin lopped off as a baby. So, why are jews singled out?

And yes, you are right, women can go out with someone to pass the time, or to just go out. I think my current relationship has this problem.

I may be wrong in what I said about circumcision as it was based only on talking to people about the subject. I can imagine that it would be more comfortable to masturbate with a foreskin as you would be moving that up and down rather than rubbing fingers on skin which might cause chaffing?!
As far as the comment refering to Jews it was just that if I had said "that's why you find so many Americans go to whorehouses" it perhaps would not be obvious that they were circumcised. Someone told me Jews do go to prostitutes a lot. Probably I should not have made that remark.

It is pretty cruel when women just use someone to pass the time. It is naive also, because a lot of dangerous situations can arise when the time comes when the woman sees someone she likes better and is off like a shot. I would advise women to watch out, because we should not overlook the feelings of the man. It is because women think men are hard and are only interested in sex that they don't realise they may care more deeply than that.

The media tells us that men are primarily interested in sex and not love, and it tells men that they should be like that also. This leads to men being viewed cynically by women and makes women not expect to ever find a someone that could really love them. As a heterosexual it may be presumtive of me, but I think it could be a reason (among other reasons) some women are lesbians. Perhaps they fell for this insulting idea of what men are like.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I've just been looking at a site called somethingjewish.co.uk, which is a pro-jewish site. In an article entitled "Israel's Sex Trade", it states that "demand for prostitution in Israel is enormous, with an estimated one million visits to brothels every month."
Almost all the prostitutes, so the site says, are kidnapped women from Eastern Europe or Russia. They are beaten and have no rights, but the men who trade them are not criminalised. Amnesty International has criticised the sex slave trade there.

 

[judas69]

I actually heard not having the foreskin actually reduces pleasure .. I have the foreskin, click here for my photos.

 

[speed]

The media tells us that men are primarily interested in sex and not love, and it tells men that they should be like that also. This leads to men being viewed cynically by women and makes women not expect to ever find a someone that could really love them. As a heterosexual it may be presumtive of me, but I think it could be a reason (among other reasons) some women are lesbians. Perhaps they fell for this insulting idea of what men are like.

Men created the idea of love, not women. All the ideas of chivalry, in the middle ages and classical times, were created by Men. Ive heard liberals spout nonsense that women were behind these ideas, etc, etc. But i disagree. I know just from reading books written in this period, that women were still second class citizens, and thought of more as property or chattel than they were as equals. Thus, men, created these ideas of romance and chivalry as a way to promote manhood and honor, to become better men.

Now that I think about it, all the great tragic love stories have been written by men. This Brokeback Mt. thing apparently backs this up too

 

[Norsemaiden]

Men created the idea of love, not women. All the ideas of chivalry, in the middle ages and classical times, were created by Men. Ive heard liberals spout nonsense that women were behind these ideas, etc, etc. But i disagree. I know just from reading books written in this period, that women were still second class citizens, and thought of more as property or chattel than they were as equals. Thus, men, created these ideas of romance and chivalry as a way to promote manhood and honor, to become better men.

Now that I think about it, all the great tragic love stories have been written by men. This Brokeback Mt. thing apparently backs this up too

What you have written here seems to be good evidence that not all cultures have chivalry or even romantic feelings. Whites have had these traditions since classical times, but they are now disappearing. This type of behaviour cannot exist in a multiracial environment. Everything must be downgraded because everything cannot be upgraded. Other cultures do not share our view of romatic love and chivalrous behaviour as even being admirable. And courtship has to be very rapid now, because our men face competition from cultures (like Africa) where there has never been courtship. What I'm saying is the smooth talking bling laden gangsta is going to jump on the polite, shy, considerate guy's girl before he knows what's going on. So he has to adapt to survive. What do you think?

 

[speed]

What you have written here seems to be good evidence that not all cultures have chivalry or even romantic feelings. Whites have had these traditions since classical times, but they are now disappearing. This type of behaviour cannot exist in a multiracial environment. Everything must be downgraded because everything cannot be upgraded. Other cultures do not share our view of romatic love and chivalrous behaviour as even being admirable. And courtship has to be very rapid now, because our men face competition from cultures (like Africa) where there has never been courtship. What I'm saying is the smooth talking bling laden gangsta is going to jump on the polite, shy, considerate guy's girl before he knows what's going on. So he has to adapt to survive. What do you think?

You know, I actually totally agree with you on this one.

But, for personal interest and for future use (final product may understand the use) I have noticed women have very different ideas on love, but all their relationships seem to center around possession, sex, or status. Possession seems the most important for the lions share in the beginning. By that, I am talking about smothering men, the jealously if they talk with other women, the abandonment of friends, the need to share everything etc. These are just my personal observations. So, please set me straight.

 

[Norsemaiden]

You know, I actually totally agree with you on this one.

But, for personal interest and for future use (final product may understand the use) I have noticed women have very different ideas on love, but all their relationships seem to center around possession, sex, or status. Possession seems the most important for the lions share in the beginning. By that, I am talking about smothering men, the jealously if they talk with other women, the abandonment of friends, the need to share everything etc. These are just my personal observations. So, please set me straight.

It would be hard to say how accurate those observations are! I'm far from being a typical woman, but I suppose I still understand "women" better than a man.

Women never seem to have so many questions to ask about men, and when we do it is really only to ask why they are not more like us.
A lot, maybe most, women are really attracted to wealth. They would like to marry a rich man for his money, and love is merely an added bonus. I don't think it is that common amongst men to feel that way about rich women.
Men are upset by this (understandably) and think such women are no better than prostitutes. That is not quite fair however, because they may really try to be a good and loving wife, while at the same time being initially attracted by his wealth (and possibly leaving him if he loses his money).
In modern civilisation, this materialistic lifestyle is shallow and often unfullfilling.

There is a natural instinct in female animals to choose a mate who they think will be best able to provide for their offspring. Rich men may be seen in this way on a primative level. This is also the origin of bringing gifts and taking out to dinner - the male is supposed to be showing that he would make a dedicated father (and not buying sex). Even some dinosaurs used to bring gifts to their prospective mate! So females are programmed to be impressed by such things. (It's a little more complicated from simply buying sex).

Other factors decide what attracts a woman, physical attractiveness is important, but studies have shown that when women think an ugly man is rich or famous (status/power being an aphrodisiac) they rate him on par with a much better looking, not wealthy,man. A sense of humour is rated highly. Women like someone who often makes them laugh. Then there is the need for them to smell compatible (this is a subconscious process and totally messed up by aftershave). And just having the right personality and similar background generally. (There are always exceptions, but this is the rule).

Regarding jealousy at their boyfriend talking to other women. Of course there are many men who are jealous likewise if their girlfriend talks to men.
I think that if it's a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex that is making them jealous, it is because there really is a high chance of their partner having sex at some point with the friend. Statistics have shown that up to 10% of men are not the biological father of their children (unknown to them). So that could explain it. But, if it is just an aquaintance at work that the girlfriend is jealous of him talking to, then that is unreasonable.
It is also a bad thing to try and share everything. Such a woman is unaware of the differences between men and women. A self-help book like Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus would be a good gift to try and get her off your back!

 

[Shiny McShining Rodriguez]

Back on the topic of love... I think many people confuse love with infatuation. Most people who don't believe in love or it's abilities of endurance tend to be referring to feelings of infatuation in my experience.

I believe true love is where you care for and cherish someone for reasons beyond your own need, as such there is very little ego involved. It's the type of concern for another that a lot of people only ever feel for their family members, and it's something that parents can usually appreciate the most.

Of course real love for another can develop from feelings of infatuation, but I think it is important to know the difference.

 

[speed]

Regarding jealousy at their boyfriend talking to other women. Of course there are many men who are jealous likewise if their girlfriend talks to men.
I think that if it's a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex that is making them jealous, it is because there really is a high chance of their partner having sex at some point with the friend. Statistics have shown that up to 10% of men are not the biological father of their children (unknown to them). So that could explain it. But, if it is just an aquaintance at work that the girlfriend is jealous of him talking to, then that is unreasonable.
It is also a bad thing to try and share everything. Such a woman is unaware of the differences between men and women. A self-help book like Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus would be a good gift to try and get her off your back!

Oh no, its not my problem; rather, it is a observation. Of 9 of my good friends that are now married, 8 of them have married women that have this possessiveness trait.

 

[infoterror]

I find it interesting that sex often becomes better the more you know someone, the more you appreciate and understand them.

When you have an empathic link to someone, it is like your motivic force is directed toward pleasuring a union of two, instead of simply a partner. This more holistic approach is, seemingly paradoxically, actually directed more toward the partner in that it gives context to her as both giver and receiver.

The best love, lust and longterm likes I have found occurred when it was someone I respected first; something about being impressed with how someone survives, and feeling compassion for their motivations and appreciation for their strength of will, makes it easy to fall into that kind of deep love that last appeared in English Romantic writing. Favorite examples in literature are "Pride and Prejudice" and Petrarch (who was not actually English).

"Man slut" -- many males are tired of feeling unappreciated for doing things the right way as well, and we have found that our sluttier male friends lack fidelity in other areas of their lives as well.

 

[judas69]

Oh no, its not my problem; rather, it is a observation. Of 9 of my good friends that are now married, 8 of them have married women that have this possessiveness trait.

Basically .. no one wants a feminist.

 

[derek]

"Man slut" -- many males are tired of feeling unappreciated for doing things the right way as well, and we have found that our sluttier male friends lack fidelity in other areas of their lives as well.

The female gender have a tendency to bundle us all up into the same group of chauvinistic male pigs, sadly.

 

[Susperia]

While the male gender have a tendency to bundle us all up into the same group of frivolous, shopaholics who are vain and hate men, sadly.

See I can be bitter, too.

 

[speed]

While the male gender have a tendency to bundle us all up into the same group of frivolous, shopaholics who are vain and hate men, sadly.

See I can be bitter, too.

Haha. But isnt it true? There are so many different personalities and types of people female and male, its funny such stereotypes even exist. But they do, and there is some truth to them.

 

[Akirahito]

Love is something that can happen to you, in different ways. After having my first child, I realized love on a whole different level. I couldn't imagine not loving my son, or him not loving me. I need that love. As far as intimate love goes, I never fanatically looked for it...in fact, I wasn't even sure it existed. However, after dating my husband for awhile, I realized how much I really loved him as well. I couldn't imagine not loving him, or him not loving me as well. I also need that love. I can also think about it, and realize how much I love my dad and how much I've depended, relied, and needed (and still do) that love also. I think love is varied and different. These three men are men that I love very deeply and intently, but the love I have for each one is different. I think this thread has dealt, mainly, on romantic love, but there are other kinds.