Males and Females

[Vimana]

Online pickup artist communities baffle me. Whenever I read their stuff or watch their videos, they maybe have a good principle in there, but tend to completely fuck up their credibility with some kind of ridiculous claim or idea.

Edit: Like this:

Stop Touching Me

Put her hand on yourself, then reprimand her by saying “Stop touching me” while pushing her hand off. Do this a few times, each time increasing the fake annoyance in your voice. “Seriously, stop touching me!” “Stop touching me or I’ll tell mom.” “Stop touching me pervy mcpervster!” “Wow, you just can’t get enough of this man goodness, can you?”

 

[Draehl]

Oh shit that blog is hilarious. I can't say I really care about the "player" oriented posts (not my style and I'm not interested in loose women) but I can definitely vibe with a lot of the anti-feminist themed posts on there... feminism in a nutshell is a movement of women not wanting to earn their end of the relationship. Maybe I fall into his (non religious) "white knight" category, but fuck if I care.

 

[The Ozzman]

Hey man, do you read the Chateau Heartiste blog? It's pretty much the harshest and most honest gaming site out there from what I can tell, with some interesting social commentary mixed in as well.

Actually, I recommend that all the guys here take a look at that site. There's lots of good advice on there about dealing with women. Beware, though, if you're sensitive, because the writers there are fiercely anti-feminist.



Never underestimate the power of unavailability and aloofness. If you go on this date at least show up 10-15 minutes late or something. Seriously, that shit works. I had a female friend after me recently and she only tried harder to get with me the more aloof I behaved (this was a result of the fact that I actually wasn't interested at all, but you see my point.) Hey, canceling on her or something might actually work out for you in the long run. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Well, I was never one to think being aloof got you anywhere. I think if you know there's a mutual attraction then being aloof makes you seem suspect. YMMV though. This also probably depends on the personality of the woman as well.

80% of the time I don't care. I don't go and spit game to women at bars. I've approached them, but I usually just strike up a conversation to be friendly and show my interest. That's about as far as it gets though.

I only scratched the surface of that blog today. I shall explore it more in the next few days.

Oh shit that blog is hilarious. I can't say I really care about the "player" oriented posts (not my style and I'm not interested in loose women)

This. I know people say 'The Game' works or whatever, but I also care about not having STDs, so I don't go pick up random women.


Could you post some of the shit you read regarding that? I don't feel like combing through tons of shit tonight because I'm tired.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

"Children’s games work because children know how to tease. The art of teasing is lost as the years pile up and adult responsibilities deaden the soul. Teasing is extremely attractive to women because it signals you aren’t automatically impressed by them."


never really thought much about that, but it sounds pretty true

 

[The Ozzman]

By the way, my date went pretty well. I wasn't sure if I liked this girl, but tonight sealed the deal with that and I definitely like her. It was definitely less awkward tonight and it went MUCH better than the first date. I just needed a redo with the two of us and without people looking over our shoulders.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Not to derail you there but this is also interesting:


"Then there are the nerdy beta types who are so socially inept that they tend not to get laid much, who resent the alpha males who get a lot of pussy, and would prefer to pretend that their lack of success in the sexual marketplace is part of some principled decision to not compromise their values and integrity for the sake of getting some. Feelings of moral superiority are too often the psychological refuge of the failure.

I am not 100% pro-Game. I am generally pro-Game, but with some reservations on a few things. I am not opposed to have a critical discussion of Game. But many of those who oppose Game are so irrationally contrary and hostile to the whole thing that it is obvious they have their noses out of joint about something and are incapable of being even remotely objective."

 

[Vimana]

I've never been on a double date, but I'd imagine they'd be hella awkward. When using it to introduce a friend to another friend, I guess it's not too awkward. The one couple can absorb the other two individuals into conversation. I feel like if I were in a relationship and hanging out with another couple in a more intimate setting like a restaurant, I would find myself comparing my relationship to theirs, or myself to the other guy as a boyfriend, and that would just be awkward.

It would be kind of like this:

Not to derail you there but this is also interesting:


"Then there are the nerdy beta types who are so socially inept that they tend not to get laid much, who resent the alpha males who get a lot of pussy, and would prefer to pretend that their lack of success in the sexual marketplace is part of some principled decision to not compromise their values and integrity for the sake of getting some. Feelings of moral superiority are too often the psychological refuge of the failure.

I am not 100% pro-Game. I am generally pro-Game, but with some reservations on a few things. I am not opposed to have a critical discussion of Game. But many of those who oppose Game are so irrationally contrary and hostile to the whole thing that it is obvious they have their noses out of joint about something and are incapable of being even remotely objective."

I argued with a guy like this. While it is true that some people generally mock players because they can't do what they do, there are some people, like me, who have had sex and don't consider it as interesting or fulfilling as their personal interests, goals, and hobbies. I just get annoyed when I get lumped into the bitter virgin category for not putting sex as my top priority in life.

 

[The Ozzman]

I don't resent the 'alpha' males you get tons of pussy. I just want to get more pussy than I currently get now...

 

[Vimana]

I dislike the term "alpha male." It carries this connotation that the person is better than other men because he is able to talk his way into sex more often than most others.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Alpha male and beta male are useful ways to talk about personality types, and there are multiple sociological contexts where it applies. Business, for example.

The children's games article made a lot of sense, but it should be pretty evident to anyone that knows that teasing is a great tactic. So good, in fact, that groups of straight male friends employ this tactic quite heavily.

From what I read of the site so far, which is not a ton, it seems unwilling or unable to bridge from being able to sleep with women to what to do with a woman you like and respect. For example, take this article: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/feminist-gets-pumped-and-dumped-by-pua/

In a date I had two weeks ago, through some combination of skill and luck, I got most of the way there, but didn't close the deal. I did a few online messages before the date, but no phoning, then was funny, and good at conversation. I knew enough to change venues, picking ones that were familiar to me, but new to her, and got some drinks in her. Then we kissed out on the street. Unfortunately, out of perhaps too much respect and interest in future dates with the girl, I refrained from the heavy groping up against the wall that I almost certainly could have got away with. We took the same train back, and I didn't try to advance any further by the time her stop came up. And so, by backing off and trying to be respectful, I probably blew a chance at getting laid, and incidentally seem to have blown my chance at another date in the process. If that was ever on the table in the first place. Could have been that pushing the right buttons and getting some booze in her overcame a lack of significant interest for a night.

 

[Episteme]

I haven't actually read that blog, but I know a lot of the techniques PUAs use, and I use them on regular basis (but without fancy "coined" terms) before I even knew anything about PUAs.

Looks like an interesting read.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Some of that stuff is definitely useful. I don't do cold approaches, and I'm never okay with lying, but a lot of it is still helpful when it comes to connecting with girls you actually like and don't wish to manipulate.

I do get turned off by the overwhelming aggression and resentment towards women (as well as the political undercurrent) in many of the articles on that site. Seems to be more extreme with some contributors more than others. I know that's a lot of the persona that helps those people pull off that approach with women, but I get the feeling a lot of very angry, emotionally removed, and uninteresting people are using it to hide behind.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

There's so much of that stuff, i.e. teasing, that i've never really given a serious try when hanging out with chicks. It would most likely help if i made a conscious effort to do it.

What seems far more difficult than social tactics for an already-made female acquaintance is how to make the acquaintances from scratch -- i.e. "cold approaches". I find the idea of this very awkward/uncomfortable (perhaps because of the manipulation factor MOL references above), and since i've seen numerous guys achieve success by networking with existing friends, i prefer to take that route and suffer the relatively scarce opportunities it affords.

 

[Zephyrus]

I have a half-finished OKcupid profile and have yet to message anyone. I think it's because I'm afraid I'll get too sucked into it, and I keep thinking to myself that any girl on there that isn't over 200 lbs. can probably afford to be picky.

 

[Episteme]

I do cold approaches with people for the sake of social experimentation when I go out. I've never lied to a girl when it came to picking her up but I constantly tease or "neg" them.

One thing I've always found funny while working in a bar is that how uncomfortable typically perceived "alpha males" get when their girlfriend/wife seems more fixated in talking to you than giving them attention. I actually had a guy who said to me while I was talking to BOTH of them and making a cocktail for his wife (who had this massive grin on her face while talking to me), "Mate, you don't have to show off to my missus, we're married. So why don't you make us our drinks and be off with it." I actually loled at him, and told him not to worry, have a seat somewhere and I'd bring their drinks to their table.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Ok if you work as a bartender you have an unfair advantage over the rest of us

 

[Episteme]

Haha, that is true. We do have to speak to strangers every day we work, still some of us do it better than the rest and my confidence has gotten better since I've started working there.

I will be finishing off my hospitality stint soon though and will be working as a chemical engineer.

 

[Vimana]

I pretty much never do cold approaches unless there is something in the environment which I could use to start a conversation, like if a girl is wearing a band t shirt of a band I like, or I'm in a music store and a girl is checking out a cd that I have, etc.

I have a half-finished OKcupid profile and have yet to message anyone. I think it's because I'm afraid I'll get too sucked into it, and I keep thinking to myself that any girl on there that isn't over 200 lbs. can probably afford to be picky.

Use plentyoffish. It's got a shitload of people, and it's not as filled with whores like okcupid. The bulk of the messages I got from okcupid were from fat girls/whores who used small talk like "oh, you like cats, so do I."

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I pretty much never do cold approaches unless there is something in the environment which I could use to start a conversation, like if a girl is wearing a band t shirt of a band I like, or I'm in a music store and a girl is checking out a cd that I have, etc.

Yeah. For me those opportunities dont seem to come up often, and it's hard to get creative on conversation starters without venturing into that manipulative territory.

 

[Vimana]

I usually start with a general statement and leave it up to the person to be interested enough to continue talking. The more rare that someone would have heard and enjoyed the band on the shirt or cd, the more likely it is that the person would want to continue the conversation. Besides, if I say something brief, and the person doesn't respond, I can quickly play it off like something said in passing so it feels less awkward.