Manowar vs. Dark Tranquility...or, which one is False Metal?

[AeonicSlumber]

I'm not defending Joey, because everyone knows how big of an ASS he is, BUT what's wrong with playing music from the 80s? Bands to it all the time.... Iron Maiden is the first band that comes to mind that plays a large select of back material...... I actually respect bands that do that more than I respect bands that say, "okay,, now it's 2014, so let's find out what type of metal is popular today, so that we can play that type of metal...."..... That has sellout written all over it.....

There's nothing wrong with playing music from the 80's - but there is something wrong with playing music from the 80's and simultaneously exploiting your fans and treating them like cattle with nothing new whatsoever to offer. There may be bands like Rush that make their money playing the classics (and arguably - rightfully so, because they ARE entertainers at the end of the day) but at least there's something worthwhile to offer to the show for everyone even if it's a unique stage show, VIP opportunities, merch, competitively priced tickets, etc etc.

In other words, it's not so much that they play "old" music, but that the fact they play old music, slap a huge price tag, offer nothing to new or incentivizing to fans, AND still treat them terribly all while simultaneously branding themselves as "true metal" when in reality everything I've mentioned up to now surmises nothing less than poserdom - it's a shit sandwich that nobody in their right mind should eat.

 

[Justin G]

Is it wrong that the thing I took away from that epic OP was that there are Manowar condoms?

I mean, doesn't liking Manowar in the first place make condoms unnecessary?

 

[Visa Guy]

"If I went and saw Alcest and it turned out to be what the OP described, I'd have a right to be annoyed. But it's Manowar. If you spent the duration of their show contemplating the decline of western civilization, I think you have to look inward."

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the Manowar show from a musical/performance standpoint. I was not lamenting the state of the world while they played, etc.

"Is it wrong that the thing I took away from that epic OP was that there are Manowar condoms?

I mean, doesn't liking Manowar in the first place make condoms unnecessary?"

Hey, I said I have a wife and 3 kids!

__________________

 

[SF Metal Man]

I was at the same two shows, and they were absolutely a contrast to each other. I might have had the same reaction as Marc, except I came up with the same conclusions regarding Manowar as Marc a long time ago and accepted it as part of the Manowar cheese. They absolutely think they are bigger than life. They absolutely don't realize how cheesy they are. Maybe the Europeans take it more serious than I do, but in a way this is all a part of the appeal for me. I don't take it seriously, just as if I went to see Spinal Tap in concert the last thing I'd want to see is a clean performance. Manowar is over the top in every possible way, and I accept that. Do I believe that everyone else is false metal? Um, no - and they don't either. Otherwise they wouldn't have put the RIP to Dio on the screen. But certainly they have a bigger ego than they deserve. I've accepted that as part of the package. Do I think they are a bunch of cool dudes? No, and as much as I love Manowar, they are probably the last group of musicians I'd actually want to hang out with. Fun band to watch and listen to, not picturing them as a fun bunch of guys to actually meet. But if they come around again in November, I'll reluctantly buy my ticket for $75, shut off my brain for a couple hours, and enjoy the cheezy goodness that is Manowar.

 

[Mardoch]

On a quasi-related note, DT is playing in Pittsburgh while I'm up there. I'm only really familiar with Fiction, but I do like that album. The rest I've heard has been ok.

Should I go? Will the live show sell me the band?

 

[SF Metal Man]

On a quasi-related note, DT is playing in Pittsburgh while I'm up there. I'm only really familiar with Fiction, but I do like that album. The rest I've heard has been ok.

Should I go? Will the live show sell me the band?

Yes you should go. Excellent live band. I'm not really a death metal fan, but DT is great. Great musicians, and very high energy.

 

[DustyV]

I was at the same two shows, and they were absolutely a contrast to each other. I might have had the same reaction as Marc, except I came up with the same conclusions regarding Manowar as Marc a long time ago and accepted it as part of the Manowar cheese. They absolutely think they are bigger than life. They absolutely don't realize how cheesy they are. Maybe the Europeans take it more serious than I do, but in a way this is all a part of the appeal for me. I don't take it seriously, just as if I went to see Spinal Tap in concert the last thing I'd want to see is a clean performance. Manowar is over the top in every possible way, and I accept that. Do I believe that everyone else is false metal? Um, no - and they don't either. Otherwise they wouldn't have put the RIP to Dio on the screen. But certainly they have a bigger ego than they deserve. I've accepted that as part of the package. Do I think they are a bunch of cool dudes? No, and as much as I love Manowar, they are probably the last group of musicians I'd actually want to hang out with. Fun band to watch and listen to, not picturing them as a fun bunch of guys to actually meet. But if they come around again in November, I'll reluctantly buy my ticket for $75, shut off my brain for a couple hours, and enjoy the cheezy goodness that is Manowar.

It's all 100% Joey believe me.... I know people that have met the Guitarist(forgot his name), Scott C(RIP) and Eric Adams, and they were all super friendly and just cool nice people, but it's Joey that comes across as a arrogant jerk. It's the old 1 bad apple analogy.....


That's why whenever I read, "Manowar said this" or "Manowar said that" I substitute the word "Joey said this", or "Joey said that" because even though I know he's the spokesperson for the band, I also know that he has them wrapped around his finger and is a total control freak(just think back to the recently Rhapsody firing episode and lawsuit).

 

[Visa Guy]

On a quasi-related note, DT is playing in Pittsburgh while I'm up there. I'm only really familiar with Fiction, but I do like that album. The rest I've heard has been ok.

Should I go? Will the live show sell me the band?

Go to the show. I don't count DT in the "death metal" category myself--same with In Flames, Poisonblack, Sentenced, etc. Technically, I guess that are melodic death metal. Anyway, DT is a great show. Great musicianship; great songs. I don't really listen to the albums that much, but live I absolutely love this band. The new album is the best they have done since Damage Done. If you don't love the show, I'll send you your ticket price back! (I really will.)

 

[AeonicSlumber]

On a quasi-related note, DT is playing in Pittsburgh while I'm up there. I'm only really familiar with Fiction, but I do like that album. The rest I've heard has been ok.

Should I go? Will the live show sell me the band?

I've seen DT about 4 times. One of the best live shows ever hands down of any band I've ever seen. I'm not huge into their material after Character, but everything before Fiction is top notch.The Fiction and onwards material is very very solid but nothing earth-shattering.

 

[Mardoch]

That's a pretty ringing endorsement, then. Guess I'm going to check out DT! Thanks fellas.

 

[Jasonic]

Bro, you know better than taking my "gfy" comment seriously, especially towards you.

I know man. Just one of those "here we go again" moments!

 

[Jasonic]

I mean, let's think about this. We're talking about fans who actively worship a bunch of 40/50 something year old greased up losers who play music from the 80's - and said losers treat these paying fans like garbage. Manowar isn't exclusively a culprit here, but that doesn't excuse those guys either.

Ok. I have a few issues with this paragraph.

There are MANY bands out there who are simply going through the motions these days trying to make a $$$ off of metal's resurgence. Many of these bands haven't bothered to write new material or even try to put together a band of talented musicians and are a crappy shell of what they once were. Let's face it. We can all name MANY bands who fall in this category.

Now let's look at Manowar. Manowar has been a full time band since inception. They have consistently toured around the world and consistently put out new material. Also they have always had talented musicians in the band. There were never hacks or fill ins.

As I said before, the whole image is hokey. Period. As Zod says you know what you are getting going in. It's been pretty consistent throughout their career aside from the ticket price. You don't want to go to a Manowar gig and hear Joey go ,"Hey guys. What about that opening band? They kicked ass right????"

As for the "true metal" thing. Part of the show. The shtick. Who cares?

If you like Manowar's tunes there would be no reason why you would not wanna see them. It's a great show.

I guess I don't 100% agree with the whole "they treat their fans like crap". What does the band owe me other than putting out good music (of course that's a matter of opinion, ha) and a great show. I have no doubt that business wise they are difficult to work with. I am sure they are very strict on who they work with and financially what they may offer a support band, etc. as Aeonic said, they are far from the only culprit of , well, everything people are accusing them of.

 

[dcowboys311]

This thread is ridiculous.

 

[dcowboys311]

Also, I have not listened to Dark Tranquillity in years, but they are an EXCELLENT live band. One of the best.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

That's a pretty ringing endorsement, then. Guess I'm going to check out DT! Thanks fellas.

You should also make sure to catch Omnium Gatherum while they're there. It's their first US tour - Edge of Sanity style death metal.

 

[Mardoch]

You should also make sure to catch Omnium Gatherum while they're there. It's their first US tour - Edge of Sanity style death metal.

I hate their vocalist's style though. Musically, fantastic, but I can't get past that voice.

Still though, if the dates line up, I might.

 

[General Zod]

You should also make sure to catch Omnium Gatherum while they're there. It's their first US tour - Edge of Sanity style death metal.

I'll second this. I might have passed on seeing DT again, had OG not been the support act.

 

[PureXul]

I'll second this. I might have passed on seeing DT again, had OG not been the support act.

Was Jukka struggling with sustain when they were playing out there? I saw the show in LA last night and while he was mostly good, he seemed to be running out of breath at several spots in most of the songs they played. All of my friends that I was there with noticed it and while we all still enjoyed Omnium Gatherum, he was definitely not up to par. I'm curious if he's just sick/had an off night or if there's something more to it.

As a tangent, the fact that Dark Tranquillity doesn't have a live bassist was oddly distracting. I'm okay with backing tracks when it's layered keyboard effects and symphonic elements (Wintersun, Kamelot, Blind Guardian as examples), but using backing tracks instead of a bass player didn't quite sit right with me. Aside from that, they are a fantastic live band as others have said, and I'd still recommend people see them, even sans-bass player.

 

[Sumeet]

Was Jukka struggling with sustain when they were playing out there? I saw the show in LA last night and while he was mostly good, he seemed to be running out of breath at several spots in most of the songs they played. All of my friends that I was there with noticed it and while we all still enjoyed Omnium Gatherum, he was definitely not up to par. I'm curious if he's just sick/had an off night or if there's something more to it.

I didn't get any sense that he was struggling at the Atlanta show. That said, I'm not a huge fan of his vocals, but their overall music is good enough that it's not a problem for me.

As a tangent, the fact that Dark Tranquillity doesn't have a live bassist was oddly distracting. I'm okay with backing tracks when it's layered keyboard effects and symphonic elements (Wintersun, Kamelot, Blind Guardian as examples), but using backing tracks instead of a bass player didn't quite sit right with me. Aside from that, they are a fantastic live band as others have said, and I'd still recommend people see them, even sans-bass player.

On the other hand, Mikael Stanne is quite possibly the best harsh vocalist ever, and his baritone clean vocals are excellent as well. The lack of a bassist was definitely a detractor to me as well, but overall it was still a great show. It is a little odd, since they haven't had a bassist for more than a year now. They obviously could have brought in a live bassist by this point if they wanted to, but so far it seems they prefer not to. I wonder if they're going to bring someone in eventually, or just have Martin Henriksson continue to play both bass and guitar in the studio, and continue to use recorded bass live. It would be cool if they brought in a really good, creative bassist, as opposed to the "guitarist playing bass" situation they've had for much of their career.

 

[Mardoch]

I hate their vocalist's style though. Musically, fantastic, but I can't get past that voice.

Still though, if the dates line up, I might.

I'm dumb. I didn't realize that OG is support on this tour. And that is a Saturday. Grats on selling a ticket for DT, guys.