Marshall > Mesa and Peavey etc. for metal?!

Clark Kent

Clark Kent

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Jan 23, 2011
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Sorry for the provocative thread title but I'm extremely surprised to see Marshall JVM410 kill other amps in this video:



Ofcourse it could be because of other amps being tweaked in a bad way but that JVM surely sits the best in the mix if you ask me. Am I going deaf or do you guys agree?
 
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I don't really like how any of the amps were dialed in for that vid, personally...

They all seemed way undergained and unfocused. That vid really makes it look like a tubescreamer in front would REALLY help each and every amp demo'd.

But yeah, out of the whole bunch, the JVM wasn't that bad.
 
I agree the JVM sounded better than the Mark V, although when people usually talk about Mesas and Peaveys for metal they usually are talking about the stock 5150 and the Dual Rec. Also it doesn't sound like they used an overdrive which would massively improve the sound (imo). Still, sounds good.
 
I work very closely with TubeTone and actually sent them most of those amps (only ones I didn't send are the Mako, JVM and Krank), I even sent them that Fathead mic :p

Out of all those I did send - The Blackface Recto was BY FAR the best of the bunch for metal. I don't like how they've got it dialed in on the video though, too undergained, I agree, but I assure you, that Recto KILLED before I sent it to them (they did their mod to it after I sent it, it seems). Easily the best sounding Recto I've ever heard. The 50/CL and Mark V would probably be a close second for me.

I don't think I'd say the JVM killed the others though, I kinda liked the Mako the best if I had to choose, but it's more how Vadim had them dialed in than anything. I'm sure they didn't use an overdrive, because they wanted to showcase the actual sound of the amp, not the boosted sound. FWIW, I believe my clips of all these amps are up on the TubeTone forum ;)
 
I think the mix sounds so weak that any talk of tone is lost to the hope of a better sounding mix.
 
Hi Clark, i did a metal home recording video using the jvm at low volume.
After all the discussion "Pod HD vs. "and "Axe Wars" i followed, i know a few threads and some videos of you, using and discussing modellers. Since i get quite good results with the real amps at home (just started) there's no need for modelling for me at all, anymore.
I posted it already, but here it is again. A comparison JVM vs Laboga will follow right now :)
Cheers,
Simon

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkWS3GvPQgg&feature=plcp[/ame]

Check the description for details
 
Overall they seemed really afraid to dial in any amp to have a decent amount of gain or brightness. Apart from the Krank which sounds very thin/harsh.
That VHT 50CL sounds like it has some real potential there. Would love to hear it set up and recorded properly.

And wtf is with one of the mic's sitting right inbetween 2 of the speakers? Pointing at the baffle?
 
I wouldn't go so far to agree with the thread title as all amps have their place IMO, but I must say the JVM is one hell of an amp.
 
Marshall amps rule Clark, no news there. Ive found that the Marshalls Ive had the pleasure of micing up are pretty easy to dial in and get sounding awesome in a mix quickly (6100 and 2000), and I think thats just kind of a general voicing thing. My Mesa sounds awesome but it takes a while to dial in and I always end up having to do some real eq-ing, however the sound is always a little more gratifying for metal stuff when Im done.
 
I guess I'm simply surprised that Marshall could come up with a tone like this. I always thought the JCM900 ear killer was their vision on high gain.

I mean compare the Mark V and the Marshall in that vid. IMO the Mark V was tweaked in properly and sounded the way I expected it to sound. Now the Marshall sounds almost the same with more low end maybe. The gain structure is extremely similar and to me the JVM was simply focused and balanced for my ears at least. Mako didn't have enough low end for me in this video at least.

I don't think the issue here was about not having enough gain but merely not enough treble/presence. All the amps should have had the same EQ balance. If that was the case I'm sure there wouldn't be much of a difference though. Kind of like Ola can make many amps sound like his tone since if the EQ balance, gain, cabinet and mic are the same... there isn't much that changes in that case. That's kind of why I DON'T USE TUBESCREAMERS. First of all they make most amps sound very similar and kill the dynamics. Second of all... just bump up the middle and gain on the amp and compare. :) That's just my opinion.
 
Clark Kent said:
Second of all... just bump up the middle and gain on the amp and compare. :) That's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

That doesn't even come close to producing the same effect.

Using a tubescreamer just makes everything sound better if you're after a saturated, liquidy fluid, yet TIGHT high gain modern metal sound. Every time I hear someone trying to achieve that kind of sound without boosting at all, it always sounds weak/undergained/dull in comparison. It just doesn't have the same power behind it. No tubescreamer = instant turn off for me...
 
the thing is that a TS in front doesn't really add gain, it just clears up the signal hitting the amp, cutting some low end and adding a different midrange that you can't reproduce by just running the mids on the amp higher. you can dial in more (and tighter) bass on the amp too because of the lowend cut.

having that said, some amps just don't take a boost too well/don't benefit from it....and that's exactly what i'm looking for. i'm so fed up of the live tapdance....with a boost in front you have to push at least two buttons to switch to a clean sound, even more if you start adding fx into the equation and the amp doesn't have some sort of intelligent switching like the marshall jvm. that's pretty much the only reason (aside from money issues :D) why i'm not running a rectifier live, it just NEEDS a boost to get into that tight metal territory. 5150s work without one but it's just not the same either....
my JVM on the other hand sounds perfectly fine without a boost....you can run it with a TS and it's a great (but different) sound too, but it doesn't NEED it. probably the reason why it sounds so good in this shootout compared to other amps.
same thing goes for ENGL, they have that low cut already built in so with a TS it just becomes too much. unfortunately most engls sound like ass in my book :D

in a recording situation i'll almost always prefer it with a TS though.
 
I don't think that I've ever come across a Mark series clip on the internet where the amp was dialed in to sound good - most users manage to dial in some shitty, twangy, undergained, flat, lifeless, flubby tone - and everyone believes that this is the best a Mark series amp can sound. IT'S NOT. Then again, I don't think any of these clips are very good.
 
yeah, in that video it sounds the best out of the bunch...but well....I also think it's not really a well done comparision.

jvm is a nice amp for sure, especially for that price.
all channels usable, no need for ts live (as fragle said). just a bit harsh in the high mids imo, but in the studio you can get that to work with an eq


I think Ermz once posted a killer thrash reamp with his JVM
 
that high mid spike is part of the marshall sound though.....can be nerve-grating in a recording situation but live it cuts through the mix well because of it.
however, the jvm doesn't really have that classic marshall growl and bark......it's quite a polished sound, lacks the rawness and balls of a good jcm 800. you can definitely tell it's a marshall, but it doesn't rip your head off, it's too polite sounding.....imho at least.
 
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