Metal Bands That Suck...8-]]

[HamburgerBoy]

I wouldn't say there's a single primary element - there's a number of elements characteristic of early black metal (tremolo picking, raspy vocals, atmospheric production, etc).

When it comes to bands like Rotting Christ and Varathron, then I'd have to defer to CIG's suggestion that the distinction is aesthetic and not technical. I'm not that into black metal, so I'm not in a position to say much more, but I suspect (as I think you do) that there's a lot of genre cross-pollination from the 90s onward.

I also think there's an ideology of purism in the black metal community which makes it taboo to acknowledge genre crossovers, and this may be what leads people to call "anything" black metal, as you suggested earlier.

But those characteristics are common to virtually all second-wave black metal, and therefore are not characteristic of Emperor.

Agreed on everything else though.

 

[CiG]

Early black metal certainly had technical parameters.

Such as?

 

[CF87]

Asphyx, holy shit what a boring band. van Drunen totally wasted his talents there.

New Asphyx is kinda garbage, sounds like it was produced by andy snep.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Phlegmatics is a good song, otherwise, nah.

Why Phlegmatics over the others?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's the only song that sounds properly creative without being gimmicky, atmospheric d-beat or something, engages me the whole way through. There are other good moments like in Techno Allah but not very consistent, and I'm hesitant to ascribe quality to styles of music I'm unfamiliar with when I can recognize that the stuff I am familiar with (metal, punk, new wave, etc) is pastiche. Also, all the dicking-around improv shit at the end is terrible.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Such as?

Guttural, howling vocals, specifically like Cronos and Clive Archer pioneered, tremolo picking, blast beats, evil, and, or Satanic aesthetic, a wall of sound nature to it, speed metal and punk influence, corpsepaint.

 

[EchoForever]

every band sucks
you fucking posers

 

[Baroque]

Death Angel

seconded

 

[Satanstoenail]

It's the only song that sounds properly creative without being gimmicky, atmospheric d-beat or something, engages me the whole way through. There are other good moments like in Techno Allah but not very consistent, and I'm hesitant to ascribe quality to styles of music I'm unfamiliar with when I can recognize that the stuff I am familiar with (metal, punk, new wave, etc) is pastiche. Also, all the dicking-around improv shit at the end is terrible.

Agreed on the improv at the end, it's unnecessary. But the rest of the album is brilliant, there are so many amazing hooks and passages in there. The climax in Carry Stress in the Jaw, the thundering crescendo in Techno Allah, the upbeat ridiculousness of Ma Meeshka Mow Skwoz, the epic mix of styles in Merry Go Bye Bye etc. It's unbridled creativity from start to finish and there will never be another album like it.

 

[CiG]

Guttural, howling vocals, specifically like Cronos and Clive Archer pioneered, tremolo picking, blast beats, evil, and, or Satanic aesthetic, a wall of sound nature to it, speed metal and punk influence, corpsepaint.

A lot of these aren't technical parameters.