Metal Image

[Scavneck]

this is a question directed more to people who don't believe Mr. Lucifer exists as an entity and likes to make humans his sex bitches hehe

I've been often confronted with people asking me why does metal, especially Death Metal use "Satanic" symbols, why is it aggressive and why do we see each other rather as "demons" than something else (note the "")

I have my whole opinion on this but I'd like to know yours first

why do you like metal and it's "devilish characteristics"? What are you thinking about while showing the "devil" horns up high?

 

[razoredge]

I like metal for different reasons than most I think. For me it is working music, the warrior side. Lyrically I like political and social metal, I'm not much on the other stuff, its point is lost on me. Many lyrics are symbolic of current or rather ancient yet on-going social issues.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Satan represents power, rebellion; the adversary unto the sheep yet the ally of the wolves. To the weak He is feared, to the strong who may look him in the eyes without fear, He is the one who guides our undertakings.

As for the horns, if I recall, Dio first used it as an indication that evil is underfoot. I see it more of a transference of energy, though it may be a somewhat-esoteric view on account of my having dabbled in the occult.

However, there is a more commercial aspect i.e. teenagers, mostly unto whom metal is targeted, are rebellions in nature and thus seek music perceived as rebellious. Madison Avenue, with its user-friendly 'nu-metal'/'metalcore' nonsense has responded to this market demand and thus have supplied it. There is nothing wrong with this, though it is right that those who follow a herd be looked down upon.

 

[razoredge]

Satan represents power... ya Ok... thats a nice pile of self gratifying bullshit there. Absolutely NO connection to the Wolf either.

As for Dio to my recollection it was something his grandmother used that was to ward off evil spirits or along those lines.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Satan represents power... ya Ok... thats a nice pile of self gratifying bullshit there. Absolutely NO connection to the Wolf either.

Book of Satan - V.9:
Blessed are those that believe in what is best for them, for never shall their minds be terrorized - Cursed are the "lambs of God", for they shall be bled whiter than snow!

Au contrair. The mutton as of late has been quite tasty might I add

 

[razoredge]

Those of true strenght bleed red and fall to no weakness of worship

 

[Vimana]

I don't really care about the satanism in Metal. Personally, I find it retarded how there are Atheists saying there is no God but saying there is a Satan.

 

[Einherjar86]

Nobody's perfect. Every human being has to fall in order to eventually rise. Some never rise or succeed. Lucifer represents that insatiable desire to know the unknowable, to take a step beyond, and to sometimes fail. Sometimes, we suffer the consequences of our actions, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue them. Read Milton's Paradise Lost or William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience. Human beings can identify with Lucifer. He represents the fallibility and imperfection in us all.

And he represents rebellion as well. The story of Lucifer is basically the Christian version of Prometheus.

But I don't like metal with "Satanist" themes. I like intellectual metal, and metal dealing with ancient pagan, heathen beliefs (which the Church claims are "satanist"). The true essence of Luciferianism is questioning that which authority tells you is true, and accepting the imperfection and individuality of all men.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

@razor: I do not worship unto Satan, I merely walk His path.

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for 'psychic vampires'!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

 

[razoredge]

Nobody's perfect. Every human being has to fall in order to eventually rise. Some never rise or succeed. Lucifer represents that insatiable desire to know the unknowable, to take a step beyond, and to sometimes fail. Sometimes, we suffer the consequences of our actions, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue them. Read Milton's Paradise Lost or William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience. Human beings can identify with Lucifer. He represents the fallibility and imperfection in us all.

And he represents rebellion as well. The story of Lucifer is basically the Christian version of Prometheus.

But I don't like metal with "Satanist" themes. I like intellectual metal, and metal dealing with ancient pagan, heathen beliefs (which the Church claims are "satanist"). The true essence of Luciferianism is questioning that which authority tells you is true, and accepting the imperfection and individuality of all men.

Most of that could be said true of God as well. Accepting imperfection and individuality, quest of ones desires. They were all just books written by humans in their defining of life. All fictional characters for the most part and where not they are dramatized to the best of modern hollywood.

I like intellectual metal myself, but dont delve in Paganism, that is also a joke to me. I have strong Celtic ties and recogonize the characteristics but am way beyond any worship of any sort.... excluding that of the female body and great music.

 

[metal_wrath]

Personally I do not think many in the scene believe in the satanic imagery or practice demonic rituals. I believe the purpose of these demonic symbolism is mostly a reaction to the lack of free thought in society from organized religion and rejection of religious symbols of good/evil, god and the devil, and the hypocrisy of major religions and it's leaders.

 

[Vimana]

Same. Its kind of childish imo.

 

[Einherjar86]

Most of that could be said true of God as well. Accepting imperfection and individuality, quest of ones desires. They were all just books written by humans in their defining of life. All fictional characters for the most part and where not they are dramatized to the best of modern hollywood.

I like intellectual metal myself, but dont delve in Paganism, that is also a joke to me. I have strong Celtic ties and recogonize the characteristics but am way beyond any worship of any sort.... excluding that of the female body and great music.

Not really. God doesn't stand for rebellion or individuality. He stands for obediance and collective belief. He stands for tyranny. God never condones pursuing desires, and while he "accepts" imperfection, he eventually demands obediance and loyalty, which equals perfection in the eyes of the lord. Only Lucifer represents the eternal imperfection of Man. We are all finite. "God" is infinite. No man can identify with such an unfathomable essence. We identify with Lucifer, because he is the more human condition.

And paganism is far from a joke. At one point nearly every civilization in the world exhibited pagan beliefs. They only appear arcane and obsolete now because Christianity trampled them and silenced their influence, and assigned evil and demonic characteristics to such beliefs.

The idea of God is an impossibility. Lucifer is the reality.

 

[razoredge]

What ? Lucifer a reality, thats kinda pathetic dont you think ? Your also confusing the church interpretations of the bible for what it really says. Once again the bible was written by men "God" didnt do anything, any indications in the bible concerning obedience and loyality are the basis for life, life will demand it or kick you in the ass.

Paganism is a joke to me, no differently than Christianity or pretence of "the devil". I fully understand that mankind needed something to believe in but none the less makes them all a joke to me in todays world. As I said

am way beyond any worship of any sort.... excluding that of the female body and great music.

 

[Scavneck]

Paganism worshiped Nature essentially, it was a celebration of existence, of men and women, not a celebration of an all powerful creature.

To them imperfection was actually perfection

They celebrated all of the human emotions, and they saw them all around nature, positive and negative

while Christians only celebrate what's accepted as positive in the eyes of God

so you cannot say it's a joke dude

but I tell ya, Catholicism is the main movement to blame, Orthodox Christians are far different, their priests actually can get married, have kids and not go crazy enough to have an urge to rape children

 

[Vimana]

I've always felt that was the problem with priests. For the most part you can not stray from basic human behavior without getting fucked up in some way (mentally).

 

[Einherjar86]

What ? Lucifer a reality, thats kinda pathetic dont you think ? Your also confusing the church interpretations of the bible for what it really says. Once again the bible was written by men "God" didnt do anything, any indications in the bible concerning obedience and loyality are the basis for life, life will demand it or kick you in the ass.

Paganism is a joke to me, no differently than Christianity or pretence of "the devil". I fully understand that mankind needed something to believe in but none the less makes them all a joke to me in todays world. As I said

I think I phrased my post badly. By "Lucifer is reality" I don't mean to imply that people should worship him. Most people who would identify with Lucifer would never worship him and probably never even think about him through most of their lives. I simply mean that Lucifer represents the common belief of individuality, rebellion, and questioning authority. There doesn't need to be any worship involved. The actions and beliefs of Lucifer simply mirror many common actions and beliefs of everyday, normal people. He is a very human character, and therefore is someone whom we can identify with.

I don't worship Lucifer, or any pagan entity, or anything of the sort. I simply reject the tyrannical authority of Christianity, which is what Lucifer is all about.

 

[razoredge]

individuality, rebelism and "questioning" authority are a youth hormone state. Once one is working and busy with life they find new and worthy ways of proving and applying themselves.... next thing you know 20-30 years goes by and one stands watching some teenager or pre 28 year old buck like a wild bronco, just shake the head and walk away, fully knowing they are trying to leave some mark on the world because its the only thing that could remove the meaninglessness of life.

 

[Einherjar86]

individuality, rebelism and "questioning" authority are a youth hormone state. Once one is working and busy with life they find new and worthy ways of proving and applying themselves.... next thing you know 20-30 years goes by and one stands watching some teenager or pre 28 year old buck like a wild bronco, just shake the head and walk away, fully knowing they are trying to leave some mark on the world because its the only thing that could remove the meaninglessness of life.

I personally believe that individualism, rebelliousness and questioning authority are innate and insatiable desires and tendencies in every human being who breathes. I know you think you're pretty wise and have seen a thing or two, and I know that you've seen and done more than I have. And what's more, I respect that; but I'll never agree with you, razor. You think the things you do in life are worth more than the things that I do? You continue to rehash the argument that you've been around, and that that gives you some entitlement over the rest of us on this forum. Personally, I feel sorry for you sometimes.

"I don't think you're quitting because you believe these things you say. I think you want to believe them because you're quitting."

And no one can really blame you; but don't drag the rest of us down.

Man never stops questioning, and he never loses his individuality. That is a natural right of every person on this planet. I know you think people have "too many rights" in this country today. And you can keep shouting that while the panopticon closes around you.

 

[Scavneck]

Einherjar86 and Cipher were one of those who stated the most logical and sane ideas here, and are closest to my opinion on this