What happened to the Rock Star Image in Metal?

[ThePhilosopher]

And how ironic it is that you use a pseudonym such as the philospher; which is hypocritical to the very nature of your posts. If you were well read in philosophy, you would probably subscribe to the ideas of relative perspectivism and subjectivity. Most of the well-read would agree to those concepts. However, your use of the word good (especially in the context of musical discussion) demonstrates that you are not one of the aforementioned.

Which leads me to believe that your screen name pertains to Death(the band)? If so, the wankery that that band became is best described in my other post.

I don't understand why you spent an entire paragraph making ridiculous assumptions about me. Yes, I am referring to Death, and no, I do not claim to be a philosopher by any means. And please tell me how them becoming "wankery" has anything to do with whether metalcore shows are better than metal shows, or to the original topic of this thread?

 

[R.I.P.2]

They have accessible works, popular for the classical music fan. More difficult to listen are those pieces projected beyond the spectrum of tonality. Check Stockhausen, Ligeti, Nono, Berio, Marco, Varese, Penderecki, Xenakis.

They may be more difficult to listen to, but isn't that because they're atonal? The composers Sadude listed aren't always hard to listen to, but they're still complex.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Ugh, Serialism.

 

[R.I.P.2]

Agreed, hehe.

 

[speed]

I think alot of the problem is that almost everyone on this board equates image and rock star image with substandard music. This is a false assumption.

 

[SADUDE]

I don't understand why you spent an entire paragraph making ridiculous assumptions about me. Yes, I am referring to Death, and no, I do not claim to be a philosopher by any means. And please tell me how them becoming "wankery" has anything to do with whether metalcore shows are better than metal shows, or to the original topic of this thread?

Well the idea of subjectivity negates right/wrong and states that experiences are personal and different upon the individual. That could have been looked up in a dictionary though. So your good/bad arguments are useless is what i implied. I would not argue whether metal or metalcore had better shows. Im saying metalcore shows cost half the price, for something more to get, other than just an auditory experience you could've got from your home stereo.

The original topic of the thread has gradually evolved into fun and the extras that can be associated with music/shows. Rockstar antics fall under that broader category which has been widened to open up more of a discussion.

 

[speed]

Example of Boring Non Rock Star Image

Opeth- went to see them , they were talented and put on a musically excellent show, but fuck I could have sat down had a few beers and talked with friends, and I would have enjoyed them just the same. Ive seen other bands that one would think would be fun, but arent like Dark Tranquility, they looked as if they had no idea how to be cool or have fun, and they are playing rather aggressive music.

 

[speed]

My very last post- seriously

I just want to see Metal lose this homoerotic image of white teenage losers with dumb T shirts, listening to complex aggressive music with sort of a forced idea of excitement, and were i see the same 50-100 people at every show. We need new blood, we need new bands to focus on getting people into shows, and puttng on good shows, We need Iron Maiden and SLayer, and hell even Metallica and Ozzy to give lessons to these bands, becuase im getting tired of the same boring losers that complain about everything, bash anything remotely popular- even a accessible riff for god sakes. The underground is great and all, but eventually a few decent bans need to step up and do hatever it takes to get people involed with metal- I dont care if it takes queer masks, or costumes, or whatever some bands from this undergrond need to step up- or this form of music is going to keep languishing, and hell soon even te concerts are going to start disappearing in the states, as there is little money or interest to support these bands touring.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

My very last post- seriously

I just want to see Metal lose this homoerotic image of white teenage losers with dumb T shirts, listening to complex aggressive music with sort of a forced idea of excitement, and were i see the same 50-100 people at every show. We need new blood, we need new bands to focus on getting people into shows, and puttng on good shows, We need Iron Maiden and SLayer, and hell even Metallica and Ozzy to give lessons to these bands, becuase im getting tired of the same boring losers that complain about everything, bash anything remotely popular- even a accessible riff for god sakes. The underground is great and all, but eventually a few decent bans need to step up and do hatever it takes to get people involed with metal- I dont care if it takes queer masks, or costumes, or whatever some bands from this undergrond need to step up- or this form of music is going to keep languishing, and hell soon even te concerts are going to start disappearing in the states, as there is little money or interest to support these bands touring.

If you want that so badly, then start a band and do it yourself.

 

[R.I.P.2]

My very last post- seriously

I just want to see Metal lose this homoerotic image of white teenage losers with dumb T shirts, listening to complex aggressive music with sort of a forced idea of excitement, and were i see the same 50-100 people at every show. We need new blood, we need new bands to focus on getting people into shows, and puttng on good shows, We need Iron Maiden and SLayer, and hell even Metallica and Ozzy to give lessons to these bands, becuase im getting tired of the same boring losers that complain about everything, bash anything remotely popular- even a accessible riff for god sakes. The underground is great and all, but eventually a few decent bans need to step up and do hatever it takes to get people involed with metal- I dont care if it takes queer masks, or costumes, or whatever some bands from this undergrond need to step up- or this form of music is going to keep languishing, and hell soon even te concerts are going to start disappearing in the states, as there is little money or interest to support these bands touring.

I want to see orchestras wearing masks and letting off fireworks in the middle of concerts. That will attract more young fans. Who cares if they're not going for the music, as long as they go?

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I think Int just summed up the point.

What speed was trying to say was that metal is not what it was in the 80's. The existence of it is not in everyone's face. It lives underground. And that bothers him.

I'd rather play for 50 people who appreciate my music, my passion, my talent, rather than a stadium full of monkeys follwing MTV.

speed is asking, "Who wouldn't rather play a stadium full of real fans?" The best of both worlds. We need a metal band that is true to music, and still appeals to a lot of people. That's what we need. A mixture of credibility and popularity.

As far as the rock-and-roll lifestyle of sex, booze, girls, cars, and drugs...it was gay from the beginning. And Metallica and Pantera killed it. Woo-hoo. Live with it.

 

[DiscipleOfPlato]

I just want to see Metal lose this homoerotic image of white teenage losers with dumb T shirts, listening to complex aggressive music with sort of a forced idea of excitement, and were i see the same 50-100 people at every show. We need new blood, we need new bands to focus on getting people into shows, and puttng on good shows, We need Iron Maiden and SLayer, and hell even Metallica and Ozzy to give lessons to these bands, becuase im getting tired of the same boring losers that complain about everything, bash anything remotely popular- even a accessible riff for god sakes. The underground is great and all, but eventually a few decent bans need to step up and do hatever it takes to get people involed with metal- I dont care if it takes queer masks, or costumes, or whatever some bands from this undergrond need to step up- or this form of music is going to keep languishing, and hell soon even te concerts are going to start disappearing in the states, as there is little money or interest to support these bands touring.

Speed, you adamant nonconforming bastard, we're finally in agreement on something. The problem with most people is that they are unable to discern between the image and the musical aspect. If the image is what it takes to garner more notoriety for the band, then so be it, the band won't lose loyal fans because they'll remain consistent in the musical proficiency they've always portrayed, while pleasing the credulous and the impressionable with an enjoyable show, that is, if the band isn't so hopelessly volatile as to reinvent themselves in order to appeal to mass audiences, and I happen to suspect that many of the bands I often listen to won't pull a "metallica" on their fans. Plus, it's a well-known fact that the great majority of people are so stupid that they will give into anything they are force-fed without the slightest shred of hesitation. What could possibly be so condemnable about stage-charisma? Yes, it is indeed the music that's vital, but the performance is never a negative supplement. The band you so ardently admire is happy because they're finally amassing some recognition for their hard work, and you should be happy because the increase in funds allows them to be more a)creatively versatile and b)more entertaining on stage. The underground metal ideology is childish. Get over it. You know if you were given the decision to play the music you wish to play and make a living or to play music and work part-time jobs catering in restaurants, you'd pick the former. The instigator of the thread is correct; an extravagant image is not synonymous with bad music.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Speed, you adamant nonconforming bastard, we're finally in agreement on something. The problem with most people is that they are unable to discern between the image and the musical aspect. If the image is what it takes to garner more notoriety for the band, then so be it, the band won't lose loyal fans because they'll remain consistent in the musical proficiency they've always portrayed, while pleasing the credulous and the impressionable with an enjoyable show, that is, if the band isn't so hopelessly volatile as to reinvent themselves in order to appeal to mass audiences, and I happen to suspect that many of the bands I often listen to won't pull a "metallica" on their fans. Plus, it's a well-known fact that the great majority of people are so stupid that they will give into anything they are force-fed without the slightest shred of hesitation. What could possibly be so condemnable about stage-charisma? Yes, it is indeed the music that's vital, but the performance is never a negative supplement. The band you so ardently admire is happy because they're finally amassing some recognition for their hard work, and you should be happy because the increase in funds allows them to be more a)creatively versatile and b)more entertaining on stage. The underground metal ideology is childish. Get over it. You know if you were given the decision to play the music you wish to play and make a living or to play music and work part-time jobs catering in restaurants, you'd pick the former. The instigator of the thread is correct; an extravagant image is not synonymous with bad music.

It's about time I am in total agreement with you as well.

I'm pretty sure that speed and I are usually on the same page though.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Usually, so am I.

I just think he was horribly misinterpreted.

But, a lot of excellent points were still made.

 

[SoulSlaughter]

manson had a rockstar image, but in a much darker sense. the last thing death metal bands want to do is be like that faggot. a metalheads mentality is not to impress or shock people. that's for hiphoppers who drive big s.u.v.s with their faggot music blaring all the way. why do they do it? it's because they're fucking insecure and crave attention, much like a 4 year old acts badly to get attention from their parents. what's the difference? both forms result in negative attention. metalheads are low key and just by looking at many of them, people wouldn't know what kind of music they're in to. all the metalheads i knew in high school including myself were pretty quiet; had nothing to prove. we got in to some fights with people who started shit thinking they were badasses, but they always backed down until we starting fighting them anyways. fucking cowards. we partied, but we stayed to ourselves so most people didn't give a shit what we did. so all that shit about fucking rock images and putting on a show, which most of the time is fake, is bullshit in metal.

 

[selfabuse]

Personally I'd be glad if the 'whole rock star image' was gone. I mean, to start with music should be about the music and not image. If you're going out of your way to "be a rock star" then you're probably trying to be something for the sake of it and it usually winds up a forced load of bullshit. Also, if you read up about at a lot of the really classic rock stars, you'll see that while their rediculous antics entertained a lot of people, ultimately they tended to lead to personal tragedy, addiction, and worst of all: dissapearing up their own arse and turning musically shit!

As for 'charisma' at live shows, personally I think that if a band just makes the effort to put their most into it, whether they are playing really fun stuff of serious emotional songs, shows tend to be great whereas just trying to be a rock star equals boring shows. I'm really generalising by referring to bands by country, but I used to listen to a lot more American bands and in general live they were all the bloody same. I got sick of live shows with lots of "wow you guys are the crasiest motherfucking audience ever" even though they said that on every show of the tour, telling the same jokes every night, "working the crowd" (I HATE that shit phrase) etc. A band in point would be Machine Head who I saw live a few times and were great (great playing and robb's one of my favourite singers) but there was nothing that special chemistry-wise and all the audience bating banter was so cliched and pointless. Fun but never gonna be a truly great gig.

On the other hand, I've gotten into european bands much more over the last few years and seen a bunch of them live and was blown away by the complete lack of bullshit from some of them, especially Opeth and Dark Tranquillity, both of whoms singers were awesome and created a really great atmosphere just from their own enthusiasm to be playing. Mickael from DT was maybe the best frontman I've ever seen. They were playing in a tiny crappy venue but he just seemed so damn happy to be there, grinning form ear to ear and totally going for it.

I do think a lot of bands are waaaay to image conscious and try to be either too stylish (and therefore dull) or too rockstar (and therefore twaty) but these tend to be the more average bands in my experience.