metallica

[Jesse Pohjalainen]

i love their 5 first albums, but after that not so much,i just cant listen to St.Anger because of those drums, and Load & ReLoad are just too....something

 

[ElectricWiz]

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here Wiz. In part, anyway.

St. Anger was most certainly designed to fit the masses of today. The production and style prove that: shitty carboard drum tone, no guitar solos (thanks alot Lars, you ignorant fucking poser), nu-metalish guitar riffs and tone. I really gave that album a chance, but I can't stand listening to it. It sounds like everything else I hear on metal radio and MTV2. That wasn't by accident. It was part of the album deal.

This is an opinion I haven't quite understood yet, though it is handed out by a lot of people. To me the riffs, production, etc. sound distinctly UNlike stuff on the radio right now. To me it's much more like a Motorhead record than a Nu-Metal record. In fact I don't hear the Nu-Metal thing at all, though a lot of people do so maybe I'm just outta touch. If anything, I find the stuff on the radio waaaaay over produced, which is why I found St. Anger kind of refreshing. I think it is the first thing they've done in a long time that has little to no commercial value. Kinda brutal, fuzzy, and strangely introspective. I am pretty dumbfounded by the claims of nu-metal I keep hearing from the community. OH, and I like the lack of guitar solos. A lot of my favorite bands like ISIS and Mars Volta don't have solos (per se) and I think that's a find trend. Solos are fine, but no solos are fine too!!

 

[SoundMaster]

Dreadful production 'values' aside, as I see it, the lack of cohesive songs killed St Anger. For example, the opening two tracks both feature some really cool riffs & sections, but overall, when put together, they both simply...lack. The songsmith just isn't there. And the rest of the album goes downhill quickly.

St Anger's production is perplexing. On one hand, it's sheer thinness and 'street value' leads one to believe that it's a charge back in time, to the era of Kill Em All (although KEA sounds infinitely superior). Were they attempting to regain the metal crowd? I dont think so. Good songs would do that. Production is second.
Did they seek this dreadful production as a novelty, as a drawing card for new fans? Was it an attempt to say "Look at us, we're so different from the standard rock crowd that we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces!" That's really how I feel about their choice in sound: they simply tried too hard to 'be different' when at the end of the day, quality songs would have achieved the task. I just dont think they have it in them anymore.

If Lars & James were offered $1,000,000,000 to make an album in the vein of "Master", i just dont think they'd be able to.

 

[ElectricWiz]

If Lars & James were offered $1,000,000,000 to make an album in the vein of "Master", i just dont think they'd be able to.

I agree with this sentiment 100%. But I also believe Maiden couldn't pull a Powerslave. Times change. People change. Things change.
Still, I've always liked watching the sway and arc of bands as they age, for whatever reason.

Also, I'll say this: It's really funny that people hold bands up to certain pedigrees. Master of Puppets is easily one of the best metal albums of all time. Such things are not effortless, and also require some luck. You can't make that stuff happen. I do agree that money and comfort have changed Metallica. But if they never really made it, it might have been bitterness and resentment that did it, the fact that those to emotions might work for a lot of metalheads not withstanding. Point being, if the Beatles were alive and got back together I really don't think a reunion album would be terribly good. You can't go back in time! Great albums are moments in time, and it's a pleasure that they exist at all. This is all I'm saying with the sellout thing. People don't sellout, that's ridiculous. They just change.

 

[SoundMaster]

I agree with this sentiment 100%. But I also believe Maiden couldn't pull a Powerslave. Times change. People change. Things change.
Still, I've always liked watching the sway and arc of bands as they age, for whatever reason.

Also, I'll say this: It's really funny that people hold bands up to certain pedigrees. Master of Puppets is easily one of the best metal albums of all time. Such things are not effortless, and also require some luck. You can't make that stuff happen. I do agree that money and comfort have changed Metallica. But if they never really made it, it might have been bitterness and resentment that did it, the fact that those to emotions might work for a lot of metalheads not withstanding. Point being, if the Beatles were alive and got back together I really don't think a reunion album would be terribly good. You can't go back in time! Great albums are moments in time, and it's a pleasure that they exist at all. This is all I'm saying with the sellout thing. People don't sellout, that's ridiculous. They just change.

You hit the nail on the friggin head! I agree wholeheartedly.
Metallica couldn't recreate "Master" due to the simple fact that that was a moment in time, almost 20 years ago.

For example, seemingly everyone (but me!) hates the recent Queensryche albums. But I regard each as a classic unto itself. Good songs are good songs, regardless of stylistic change.
There's NO WAY in hell Mindcrime II will even remotely sound like the original. I just don't think it's possible.

Think about this: are you, the reader, the EXACT same person you were in 1988? Do you still enjoy - to the SAME DEGREE - the bands and albums you did then? I sure as hell don't. Back then, I loved thrash more than anything. Today, there are only a few thrash bands and albums that i can sit through. Light years, the difference is. (that sounds like something Yoda might say)

 

[Wyvern]

I believe we should make an intelligent division between recreate a classic and make a decent album.

A classic by definition is a gem that struck us in a defined moment in time and cannot be recreated due to the fact that the conditions are now different.

A decent album can be put out any given time if the band have put the heart into it.

So let's take two examples: Metallica and Motorhead.

Metallica can't pull another MOP, Motorhead cannot pull another AOS. Both albums are classic and cannot be repeated. Now Metallica comes with "St. Anger" and Motorhead comes with "Inferno", the first it's damn crap done to satisfied the current affair in big labels and pop music and the second it's done by heart to satisfy the fans.

And EW I do disagree with you people do sell out. Iron Maiden cannot pull another "Powerslave" but "Dance Of Death" (which is crap IMO) is not an attempt to cash in the flow of current music, maybe IM changed like Metallica but I hope you agree with me that the difference it's obvious.

Please I'm not bashing anyone here (except Metallica ) and this is not a personal attack, I just believe the criteria used to defend new Metallica have to be other.

NP: Holocaust - 'Push It Around'

 

[ElectricWiz]

Please I'm not bashing anyone here (except Metallica ) and this is not a personal attack, I just believe the criteria used to defend new Metallica have to be other.

NP: Holocaust - 'Push It Around'

Nah, no worries. I don't feel bashed. In fact, it's this kind of argument i can surely live with. Usually the bashing is more akin to something one reads in the comments section on Blabbermouth, and it's that I can't stomache. Anyway, for the record, I think that Metallica is in no way living up to their legacy really. I like St. Anger a lot more than the average Joe, but compared to the early stuff on quality alone, not style, it's light years behind, light years worse.

If nothing else, Metallica themselves are to blame for having taken such an extreme turn in their careers (from the, "we'll never make a video, never go for airplay!" attitude) to wherever it is they are now. People are bound to feel extreme about them. Believe me, I could live in a world without any release past Garage Days....and really actually do. St. Anger is the first I bought in years. I don't defent Metallica....at all. I'm not even a big fan anymore. The Metallica hate brigade just freaks me out. Just like the people who are polar on huge issues like abortion freak me out. Regardless of which end of the argument they are on.

 

[Electronicoil]

Perfect example, Wyvern.

Another example of staying "true" - Savatage. Even though T.S.O. is, in my mind, mostly about the Benjamins, they are doing it with a lot of class.

 

[Wyvern]

Just like the people who are polar on huge issues like abortion freak me out. Regardless of which end of the argument they are on.

Cool. I understand your point, I tend to be very polar sometimes I guess it's part of being human. If I were Vulcan I probably won't have that problem (but I would have big ears ).

I don't consider myself part of any hate crew (in metal at least), I know people who even discard old Metallica records after the "loads" which to me is stupid. If I don't like the new material but I do the old there's no reason to change that. Sameways if I like the new material of a band but not the old that's not a reason to hate the old stuff just skip it and ignore it.

One thing is for sure Metallica influence and place in metal history is and will be undeniable otherwise it wouldn't stir so much controversy.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I'm with Wyvern on this and he made a very good comparison between Metallica and Motorhead (Saxon would be another good example). It's exactly why I firmly believe that Metallica did sell out. St. Anger, the way it's written and produced, is blatantly pop metal in its overtones. It was intentional and pre-arranged with the record company. (Sorry Wiz, I just can't understand why you can't hear the similarities. Maybe it's because we're from different worlds...you like raw production, I like clean production. Likely your ears are better tuned to the variations in raw productions. Mine aren't. It all sounds the same to me. Shitty )

For those who disagree that they sold out, ask yourself this question: Would Metallica have written and produced an album with clunky drum tones, muffled fuzzy nu-metal riffs, and no guitar solos IF IF IF that wasn't the popular metal scene these days? I say no. They wouldn't have.

I don't expect them to put out another Master of Puppets. But I do expect them to at least put out a quality effort like other old school bands in their genre. Overkill, Kreator, Exodus, etc. are doing it. Why aren't they? Because they sold out and made an album to fit the MTV crowd.

 

[Bryant]

Kirk seemed the most normal out of the bunch to me in SKOM...
And I don't think Metallica died with AJFA, that album has some of their strongest tunes. As for 'One', sure - it has a mellow part, then goes into thrashy bashing to the end. Then again, weren't Fade To Black and Welcome Home arranged the same way? The whole difference is that they had no exposure through a video...

I agree 100%. The Metallica as we knew it didn't die until after that release. The success of the "one" video might have had something to do with it, but I regard AJFA up there with MOP and RTL. I thought it was an awesome release.


Bryant

 

[SoundMaster]

but I regard AJFA up there with MOP and RTL. I thought it was an awesome release.


Bryant

As do I.
It features some of their heaviest tunes ever (Frayed Ends of Sanity) and is quite progressive and complex, at times.

 

[Electronicoil]

I'm with Wyvern on this and he made a very good comparison between Metallica and Motorhead (Saxon would be another good example). It's exactly why I firmly believe that Metallica did sell out. St. Anger, the way it's written and produced, is blatantly pop metal in its overtones. It was intentional and pre-arranged with the record company. (Sorry Wiz, I just can't understand why you can't hear the similarities. Maybe it's because we're from different worlds...you like raw production, I like clean production. Likely your ears are better tuned to the variations in raw productions. Mine aren't. It all sounds the same to me. Shitty )

For those who disagree that they sold out, ask yourself this question: Would Metallica have written and produced an album with clunky drum tones, muffled fuzzy nu-metal riffs, and no guitar solos IF IF IF that wasn't the popular metal scene these days? I say no. They wouldn't have.

Wow. I don't think St. Anger sounds particularly Nu-Metal at all. I think it's a failed effort to return to some type of "raw" sound, probably from a misguided intent to shut up their old fans who had been bashing the Load/Reload records as being too slick and not metal.

But St. Anger is just completely half assed. It's got all the worst qualities of a meticulously overproduced record (soulless, overthought, dead) and a "raw" record (grating, rushed sounding tunes, etc). The thing about St. Anger is they say it's all "raw" and shit but really it's just a bunch of studio jamming that's glued together digitally with Pro Tools like a damned Emenim album. Metallica is really washed up if they can't do better than St. Anger. And despite heavy promotion on St. Anger I think the record sales were low. Go to any used CD shop and you'll see lots of copies. Most people who bought it don't listen to it much.

 

[Electronicoil]

I agree 100%. The Metallica as we knew it didn't die until after that release. The success of the "one" video might have had something to do with it, but I regard AJFA up there with MOP and RTL. I thought it was an awesome release.

I just wish it had bass guitar on it. Really I do. (Pssst, I'm a bass player.)

 

[Priest of Evil]

Until recently, I had stayed away from talks about Metallica for a long time because, yes they pissed me off "big time" back in the day. Nowdays I dont care, I dont bother with their new tunes, I just enjoy the old thrash faithfuls.

But I honestly dont believe they have it in them to make even a half decent metal album, they are too focused on what is popular and not what they want to do. Which equates to the fact they're sold out and care more about money than the art.

Ok so they are older and have families to feed, their musical tastes have changed or whatever, do we really give a toss? They are so souless now metalheads should really stop buying their records! I think they are really clutching at straws gigging for the prison population and using it as PR - its like they realise they've totally alienated their original fan base(duh!) - well there are so many gangstas and wannabes im sure Metallica's retirement fund will be well greased.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Wow. I don't think St. Anger sounds particularly Nu-Metal at all.

I'd better tag on a side note right here. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure WHAT nu-metal is. It just seems to be the hip term these days for whatever that crap is that they play on Headbanger's Ball. So, when I say nu-metal, I really mean popular radio/mtv metal, as it stands today.

 

[Travisty]

I think they got tired of making nine minute songs of just the fastest shit you ever heard and just moved on
"When a Man Lies He Murders
Some Part of the World
These Are the Pale Deaths Which
Men Miscall Their Lives
All this I Cannot Bear
to Witness Any Longer
Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation
Take Me Home" this is to live or to die a song on the ...and justice for all album. this is a 9:48 second song these are all the lyrics.

 

[metal paddy]

I agree with this sentiment 100%. But I also believe Maiden couldn't pull a Powerslave. Times change. People change. Things change.
Still, I've always liked watching the sway and arc of bands as they age, for whatever reason.

Also, I'll say this: It's really funny that people hold bands up to certain pedigrees. Master of Puppets is easily one of the best metal albums of all time. Such things are not effortless, and also require some luck. You can't make that stuff happen. I do agree that money and comfort have changed Metallica. But if they never really made it, it might have been bitterness and resentment that did it, the fact that those to emotions might work for a lot of metalheads not withstanding. Point being, if the Beatles were alive and got back together I really don't think a reunion album would be terribly good. You can't go back in time! Great albums are moments in time, and it's a pleasure that they exist at all. This is all I'm saying with the sellout thing. People don't sellout, that's ridiculous. They just change.

i agree with you

 

[#1_Droogie]

I think St Anger is almost a little foreshadowing (I hope, anyways). I think they were trying to get back to their 'old' sound more, but had been away from it for so long they couldn't just pull an album off the shelves, so to speak. I do agree with the idea that it was heavily corporate influenced (with the lack of solos and heavily downtuning) but I think if they honestly try, they can make a half decent album again.

Listen to songs such as Sweet Amber, pretty much full on thrash right there. I think they need to stop doing these huge shows with all these popular 'artists', and get back to thinking about music, not money.

 

[troopsofdoom]

I was watching some old sepultura last night. Do i ever miss those old days. It just shows the directions bands can take. Look at Kreator they came back to the fold with Enemy of god it can be done!!!!!!!