Michael Pinella in the overall mix

SyXified

Member
Jun 22, 2003
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Massachusetts
www.unholymothers.com
Does anyone else think that Michael Pinella's keyboard parts could really stand to be brought up in the overall Symphony X mix? They create so much movement and really provide the essential tensions and resolve that make a song 3 dimensional. I was listening to Wicked the other day, and I had barely ever heard what he did over the verses, but paying attention to what he does gives that part so much more character and atmosphere. I know that X was trying to be more guitar oriented as of recently and I'm sure there are a ton of quasi-Symphony X, moreso genre fans that wouldn't be able to relate to the music if the guitar was not the prevailing force, but for those of us who really appreciate inside and out everything that is going on in a Symphony X song, the keyboard parts play such an important role and to be so far back in the mix is really a shame for the overall quality of the songs. The keyboard is a bit more present than on most of the albums on V, and that one has always been my favorite mix. Even though the guitars are not crammed down your throat, you can hear them clearly, as well as everything going on which gives V that wonderful identifiable atmosphere and mood that makes the concept of the album so strong. Thoughts?
 
I totally agree, more keys would be nice. I liked the mix on Twilight. Not as much keys as on V, but much more than the Odyssey. And V obviously needed the key sounds a lot more.

How about in a live setting? They most definately need the keys cranked up some - it's so hard to hear Pinella's kickassness.
 
He could be turned up a bit in some parts, but not a whole lot. Part of getting the full effect for certain keyboard lines is to have them just subtle enough so that people don't concentrate solely on them, but if you took them out, it would sound empty without them. This is the case with stuff like that verse riff in Wicked. Other times, like the verses of The Turning (with the strings and harpsichord...way too quiet) you can barely hear him at all, and giving a nice boost to the old volume control would certainly make those parts sound better.
 
Liquid Shadow said:
Part of getting the full effect for certain keyboard lines is to have them just subtle enough so that people don't concentrate solely on them, but if you took them out, it would sound empty without them.

I totally agree. I personally think it's more of an issue in the live setting than on the albums. Of the 9 times I've seem SymX live, probably less than half were times that I could actually hear Pinnella's solos, let alone anything else he played. It sucks because when you can hear him, he totally shreds.
 
OfSinsAndShred said:
I totally agree, more keys would be nice. I liked the mix on Twilight. Not as much keys as on V, but much more than the Odyssey. And V obviously needed the key sounds a lot more.

How about in a live setting? They most definately need the keys cranked up some - it's so hard to hear Pinella's kickassness.


Yeah at Progpower 4 you wouldn't even of known he was there
 
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I think the thing I recognize so much more than the guitar parts often is Pinella's background synths. I love hearing that synth in the Church of the Machine verses, and listening to the atmospheres he creates in On the Breath of Poseidon (or was it romeo who composed every sample?), so beautiful. Not to mention, his breathtaking piano solo in Egypt.

I wish the older cd's had better recording quality so I can hear the synths and guitar mixed better. I hope their new cd has more synth incorporated.
 
absolutly agreed! hes tones right now dont really cut through the mix as well as other keyboard players (janne wirman comes to mind) but hes got a awesome lead tone!
 
bball_1523 said:
I think the thing I recognize so much more than the guitar parts often is Pinella's background synths. I love hearing that synth in the Church of the Machine verses, and listening to the atmospheres he creates in On the Breath of Poseidon (or was it romeo who composed every sample?), so beautiful. Not to mention, his breathtaking piano solo in Egypt.

I wish the older cd's had better recording quality so I can hear the synths and guitar mixed better. I hope their new cd has more synth incorporated.

MJR and Pinella both had a ton to do with all the "classical" orchestral parts. I'm sure both of them made significant contributions. When you have that much going on it's easy to imagine someone coming up with and adding a part that the other didn't think of. And yeah, his solo in Egypt is obsurdly good, infact throughout all of V you can tell that Pinella was such a key factor to creating mood and consistency throughout the piece. Like the keyboard part in the background of Evolution that appears again in Egypt. That album and thematicness is the finest example of what a theme based concept album really should be. I've raved to so many people about how the final cello(?) notes at the end of Rediscovery part II are the best part of that album, because that slight sense of unresolve and somthing uncomplete after the triumphant cadencial ending sums up the entire albums efforts in like 4 notes.

Live especially Pinella could simply stand to come up overall, and no other adjustments would need to be made. On an album a lot of tone and part tweaking would be needed to get a proper mix with more present keys, but live, he should just come up and everything would be fine.
 
Regardless of the album, the keys have always been too far back in the mix as compared to the guitar. The guitar is even louder than the vocals most of the time. I've gotten used to it but wish that there was a bit more balance in the overall mix.

Regards,

Paul
 
I think Pinella is mixed appropriately on the albums (though I wish he would find a new solo patch... that sound is nauseating!)... but I did find it quite hard to hear him in the live setting.
 
People need to realize that not every instrument is meant to stand out every moment of every song. The keys are just as useful adding a fullness to the sound than actually playing a lead type part