Mixes too quiet after limiting

[Tamarocker88]

Hello,

My mixes tend to come out too low in volume. In comparison with professional recordings, I have to increase the volume on speakers in order to hear things better. I usually compress and EQ each of my tracks and I also put some compression and EQ on the master bus before the limiter.

I record guitars and bass DI with them peaking at around -12. I Record the bass drum with it peaking at about -18, snare peaking at about -18 and overheads for the drums peaking at about -22.

After tracking, I put a limiter on the master and end up boosting the gain by anywhere from 7-10dB to get the track as close to unity as possible without ever clipping.



Examples: www.soundclick.com/ZacharyCruz

Example #1 is "Pokemetal". This is a recent recording and mix I did. The volume levels are low though.

Example #2 is "Mixing Test". In this one, the guitars and drums have more volume to them, and I've got the same exact number of tracks, same recording levels.

Suggestions and critiquing greatly appreciated!

 

[ahjteam]

Try raising just the 3khz range with a really wide boost. Makes a really big difference. And if you cut it the same way, it makes it sound more further away

quick demo here, the gain of the 3khz is automated on the guitars: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/eq_distance.mp3

 

[bryan_kilco]

ahjteam, that was automated on JUST the guitars? Crazy!

 

[Tamarocker88]

Try raising just the 3khz range with a really wide boost. Makes a really big difference. And if you cut it the same way, it makes it sound more further away

Is this advice for all tracks,the master, or just guitars?

I tend to boost my guitars within the 3-4k range by a few dB and I cut other tracks in the same range, if possible, to try and give them room. I might've missed that here though.

 

[darthjujuu]

i usually need a few limiters to get in the ballpark. just one instance of one (for my mixes anyway) won't get it to where i need it. voxengo elephant is usually last in my chain because it has a really dependable RMS meter. some of the guys on here will tell you that RMS meters aren't trustworthy... but I know when using elephant that i need to be atleast in the single digits (-9 db RMS) to be a contender. lately i've been doing:

buscomp (the glue, or a nice fancy hardware emulating compressor) >
ozone harmonic exciter (and a few other modules if the material needs it) >
elephant

and in some extreme cases, two elephants in a row. or maybe enable ozone's limiter with a fast attack.

careful control of attack/release is even more important when stacking compressors and limiters, having the first one pump and then the next one ducking the pump (for lack of a better way to put it) will result in a trainwreck

 

[Fox Mulder]

Here's your solution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

Try to make something out of it and it would surely get you into the ball park of making your mixes louder yet not fatiguing
Compression/Limiting/Clipping only does 50% of the loudness job IMHO.

 

[Tamarocker88]

careful control of attack/release is even more important when stacking compressors and limiters, having the first one pump and then the next one ducking the pump (for lack of a better way to put it) will result in a trainwreck

Yeah, I'm sure I must be screwing that up. As far as compression is concerned, I compress guitar tracks usually to get the palm mutes and chords to be more normalized. I compress snare and bass drum, and even my overheads.

The only compression I use on my master bus is "Classic Compressor" 's Premastering pre-set. Yes, I know presets aren't the best way to go, but..... meh, I'm a noob. That's my excuse lmao.

As for Voxengo Elephant, I'll defnitely check that out.

Is it normally acceptable to use more than one limiter in sequence?

 

[Tamarocker88]

Try to make something out of it and it would surely get you into the ball park of making your mixes louder yet not fatiguing
Compression/Limiting/Clipping only does 50% of the loudness job IMHO.

By showing me these Equal Loudness Curves, do you mean to say that I should be trying to focus on frequencies that the human ear picks up on better?

 

[darthjujuu]

The only compression I use on my master bus is "Classic Compressor" 's Premastering pre-set. Yes, I know presets aren't the best way to go, but..... meh, I'm a noob. That's my excuse lmao.

As for Voxengo Elephant, I'll defnitely check that out.

Is it normally acceptable to use more than one limiter in sequence?

just make sure the compressor sounds transparent before adding anything else...meaning, no audible pumping or ducking. you'll get that right by adjusting the attack/release... and you can't trust a preset here, it's different in every bit of material.

using limiters in sequence is common practice...just take it easy, shit will turn into a clippy fart real quick if you're not careful

 

[Tamarocker88]

just make sure the compressor sounds transparent before adding anything else...meaning, no audible pumping or ducking. you'll get that right by adjusting the attack/release

Hey, would you mind giving me an example of ducking/pumping? I don't know if I truly know what they both sound like.

Also, yeah... I know I shouldn't be using presets at all. :-\

 

[darthjujuu]

pumping is when you can audibly hear the mix volume "pumping" in and out whenever a transient spkies (say a big bassy kick drum) and then you can hear the release of the compressor after the transient as the level comes back up. you'll know it when you hear it. make a really drum heavy mix, set a fast attack and slow release, and pull the threshold down way too far. that's pumping.

 

[Sonic75]

There are no secrets to have loud songs...the key is a right frequency balance and to have everything controlled.

 

[zver]

dude you maybe should record your track ant higher level and then mix them on lower level these guitars are like dying..what is your average level on guitars only?and on the mix?

 

[Plankis]

Well, there's too much bassfrequencies in Pokemetal. No wonder you can't get it louder. If you want a loud song you really need to control the lowend.

 

[ahjteam]

ahjteam, that was automated on JUST the guitars? Crazy!

Yup. It has to do with what Maamar Huq posted on #6. Fletcher Munson curve is basically just an inversed 3khz boost and the power of music is in the 1-6khz.

And the Pokemetal song in OP has too much 60-500hz low end content that is eating away a lot of the headroom.

 

[Dollarosa]

I usually have slate vcc, linear eq, api comp, gclip, gclip, elephant on master chain

But..... considering buying slate fgx

 

[B36arin]

Ahjteam, I have a very hard time believing that you only automated the EQ on the guitar bus. Just listen to the drums, there's no way that you have only automated the EQ on the guitars. That must be on the master bus.

 

[Tamarocker88]

dude you maybe should record your track ant higher level and then mix them on lower level these guitars are like dying..what is your average level on guitars only?and on the mix?

Hey,

For Pokemetal I recorded the guitars DI with them peaking at around -22dB. I then ran them through a compressor to even out the chords and palm mutes, put them through LePou Legion, then through LeCab with two Impulses (both highpass and lowpass filtered). I adjusted the Legion volume as necessary so that the tracks weren't clipping on the way out of the plugins. After the guitars get through all those VST's, I lowered the faders so they're peaking around -24dB each on the master.

 

[Tamarocker88]

Well, there's too much bassfrequencies in Pokemetal. No wonder you can't get it louder. If you want a loud song you really need to control the lowend.

Yeah I thought I was controlling a good amount of the bass frequencies by highpass filtering on all of my tracks, but I guess I have to do more with the EQ'ing. I've been HP Filtering the guitars around 80-100Hz, the Bass around 60Hz, the bass drum around 50-60Hz etc...etc...etc...

 

[ahjteam]

Ahjteam, I have a very hard time believing that you only automated the EQ on the guitar bus. Just listen to the drums, there's no way that you have only automated the EQ on the guitars. That must be on the master bus.

very possible, it's been a few years when I made that example. can't remember everything. But you got the point, ay?