Mixes too quiet after limiting

And the Pokemetal song in OP has too much 60-500hz low end content that is eating away a lot of the headroom.

Hey ahj, how did you know that there was too much 60-500hz lowend? Did you use a spectral analyzer? Or did you know by ear?

I have downloaded some spectral VST's plus there's one built into Ableton Suite 8, I just need to go do some research on how to use them.
 
Hey ahj, how did you know that there was too much 60-500hz lowend? Did you use a spectral analyzer? Or did you know by ear?

Both. Especially the bass is really boomy on the low mids. Just lowering the low end and then putting the volume back with make up gain cleaned up the balance quite nicely. Now that I listened the example I sent you the guitars are maybe even a bit too harsh on the high mids (I only had the low quality mp3 mixdown I recorded to work with tho), but if you listen songs or bands in similar genre like Slayer's Raining Blood, the volume balance of the guitars and bass is closer in my version than on yours.
 
very possible, it's been a few years when I made that example. can't remember everything. :loco: But you got the point, ay?

Yeah, definitely! I had a breakthrough related to your example a few months ago. I did a mix for a band which came out really weak and muddy, so I referenced it against some other stuff, and changed the level of 3k of a few instruments. The difference was huuuge, and I've never seen it mentioned here before you did.
 
Yeah, definitely! I had a breakthrough related to your example a few months ago. I did a mix for a band which came out really weak and muddy, so I referenced it against some other stuff, and changed the level of 3k of a few instruments. The difference was huuuge, and I've never seen it mentioned here before you did.

I learned it from movie sound class. after the faders imho it's one of the easiest way to move things behind and forward in the in the stereo's 3d space.
 
welcome to the world of competitive mastering! Isn't it retarded what we have to do to make our mixes as loud as possible simply so they will be on par with every other modern rock or metal mix, when people could easily just turn up their volume ???

If your serious about getting your song loud:

Compress your mix about 3-5db with a compressor designed to go on the 2 buss, like the Waves SSL Compressor or the API 2500. I usually use the Waves SSL set with the attack to 15 or 30, ratio either 2 or 4, depending on the particular mix. Always auto release.

Your mastering eq usually belongs after this in your chain, but if you are doing serious corrective eq work or throwing some major multiband compression adjustments on your mix, you may consider doing these adjustments before your buss compression stage. If possible you should fix any major problems in the mix, but controlling your low or high end with some multiband compression is fairly typical.

If you are looking to maximize volume, some eq adjustments after this are absolutely necessary. In accordance with the Fletcher-Munson curve, boosting between 1-5K will almost always increase perceived loudness. Like others have said, a broad boost around 3K will do the trick. Be careful with your Q; you don't want to boost any further than 1K or 6K and a little narrower than that is usually good. Also, considering boosting your low end, perhaps around 120hz, and the sizzle of the high end at 14-15K a bit as well.

Of course, to maximize loudness your going to need to limit your 2 buss. Taming transients is an essential process to getting your mix loud, but just like with your eq adjustments, you need to be careful you don't wreck your mix. Don't squash the shit out of it, and don't tolerate any perceivable distortion. We are shooting for an average RMS level of between -12 and -8. If you can somehow get it louder than this without destroying your mix, great...but beware. It is really a dumb move to fuck up your mix that you have worked your ass off on in your quest for loudness. It just isn't worth it!

I have always found it to be easier to achieve commercial levels with two limiters. A plugin like Pro Audio DSP DSM will allow for you to achieve your mastering EQ adjustments, be your first limiter, as well as give you tons more options (it is an absolutely fantastic plug in, I recommend it to anyone). From here you can use something like the Massey L2007 to top of your mix. Watch your RMS and LEQ(A) levels closely to get a gauge of what your reading (in Pro Tools this can be done with the Phasescope plug in). Listen closely for distortion. Do not add any additional gain via EQ or otherwise after your final limiter as this will most definitely cause your 2 buss to clip.

Using these methods I have been able to maximize volume without fucking up my mix or introducing any obvious amounts of audible distortion. Good luck, and remember that volume in a master isn't everything!
 
Isn't it retarded what we have to do to make our mixes as loud as possible simply so they will be on par with every other modern rock or metal mix, when people could easily just turn up their volume ???

Yes, it is retarded.

Using these methods I have been able to maximize volume without fucking up my mix or introducing any obvious amounts of audible distortion. Good luck, and remember that volume in a master isn't everything!

Thanks for all the great advice! I'll deff try it out