Moderation & Board Issues

[speed]

Please people, attempt to make somewhat philosophical questions. The threads should not merely be a statement of ones beliefs, but a question that can spur discussion. There are chat threads etc elsewhere.

And after a flurry of rather pointless threads as of Feb. 20, I will be much more vigilant in closing down threads and deleting unneccesary posts.

Hopefully people have heard of the Socratic method. If not, here is a wikipedia article to refresh you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
The idea here, is someone asks a question, and others offer solutions, hypotheses, etc.; whose logic and truthfulness are debated and examined until some truth has eventually been discovered from what ideas, theories that are left standing at the end of the debate.

So please, we are not trying to kill ideas or this thread, but only improve its quality.

 

[Blaphbee]

In a philosophy forum, I should think that moderators would not be censuring or censoring anyone for any point of view, regardless of its veracity.

Censoring someone because of them expressing an opinion contrary to the moderators' own opinions is not fair or balanced moderation.

Have either of you two moderated a forum before? Because you seem very eager and happy to excercise a power which doesn't need to be hauled out at every opportunity.

Final Product has been apparently editting posts by Norsemaiden, based on what is merely a perceived position of Norsemaiden's on FP's part; Speed has issued numerous posts detailing his own position on holocaust denial for instance; I am not a holocaust denier, thus I trust I won't be subjected to ridiculous assertions that I'm biased in a certain way against speed and am merely making false accusations in order to be needlessly contrary, but he has also issued warnings to people who seem to advance a perspective which isn't agreeable to him. This does not show impartial conduct on the part of the moderators. What this shows is that the deck is stacked in favour of certain opinions, which will be enforced by the moderators who hold these same opinions.

As has been shown, they are not casual about enforcing their opinions about what they think philosophy to concern itself with (contrary to the stated position that philosophy is about "fair" debate and not calling attention to hard truths or socially unacceptable viewpoints, the pursuit of philosophy is truth, regardless of whether the truth about an issue is palatable to leftists or rightists, nationalists or egalitarians alike), and thus, there has been far too much abuse of power. Note that I have not been on the recieving end of such moderation as of yet, and am merely asking a question.

Stupidity is intolerable, and should be crushed, but when it comes to an opinion that you disagree with, if it is argued intelligently, why is there ANY amount of censorship occuring in order to stifle these viewpoints? What reasons do the moderators have for justifying the censorship of opinions contrary to their own?

Try not to delete this message. I'm interested in hearing your response.

 

[derek]

The only messages either of us has deleted have been non-sensical ones.

Neither of us have spent any-time whatsoever deleting or editing posts we do not agree with. To be honest, I'm not sure where your coming from. I have no urge nor desire to edit or delete opinions contrary to my own.

In fact, I've been pretty fair and balanced in my approach to moderation, as has speed, so I believe your charges against us are without warrant.

 

[Blaphbee]

Final product has been calling me a racial supremacist and censoring me.

I believe the way you word your posts hints towards white supremacy, yes.

I actually did not find the post you made offensive, I simply thought the wording and tone were perhaps a little racist and made the decision to close it while I made a decision.

I do not think the laws are reasonable. I see the entire species as the same, different socially and perhaps in appearance of physicality, but we are all in the same boat.

I just think its a shame when someone with a controversial take on things can't express themselves freely.

It was not so much the controversial views as the tone and language. People are free to express whatever they wish, providing it does not ooze of hatred or any sort of hidden agenda.

So it's just free speech, within limits? Do you not see the hypocrisy? I have only said that you are enforcing your own opinions on us all because you believe that the things being argued fall within some arbitrary defintion of "hate". This is evidently false, given Norsemaiden's position on the matter.

Why the double standard?

 

[derek]

I see no double standard.

Norsemaiden's posts actually remained undeleted, I simply closed the thread while I spoke to speed regarding the entire issue. All I have done is ask that people, including Norsemaiden, adhere to some reasonable standard of understanding, free from any excessive levels of racism, bias or hatred towards any groups. I would consider deleting posts that do contain such views, if I considered them based upon nothing but prejudice.

However, I am not in the habit of censoring the views of others, nor deleting posts I do not agree with. You seem to have levelled this charge at me unfairly, because the picture you are painting is not me whatsoever.

 

[Blaphbee]

Those are your words above, in my previous post.

Do you deny this to be your position? Do you also deny that this position is colouring your moderation of the forum and the viewpoints expressed?

Also, you egomaniac, this isn't just about you, you just happen to be here, and are taking this personally - it's about the both of you.

 

[derek]

I cannot speak for Speed, only myself. Hence the personal response.

I do deny what your saying about me, yes. I have edited almost no posts, nor deleted many since becoming a moderator. I have no interest in censoring views I disagree with.

 

[Blaphbee]

I cannot speak for Speed, only myself. Hence the personal response.

I do deny what your saying about me, yes. I have edited almost no posts, nor deleted many since becoming a moderator. I have no interest in censoring views I disagree with.

What am I saying about you? I'm simply showing that you have an existing bias, and you are not only PMing members to tell them to stop posting to such an effect, but now, you're denying that you have a problem with opinions contrary to your own. Based on this, being an impartial moderator seems to be beyond your range.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth.

 

[derek]

What am I saying about you? I'm simply showing that you have an existing bias, and you are not only PMing members to tell them to stop posting to such an effect, but now, you're denying that you have a problem with opinions contrary to your own. Based on this, being an impartial moderator seems to be beyond your range.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth.

I deny what you have charged me with, yes. I think I can be an able moderator and think the same for speed. Like all folks, I do have bias and opinion, yes. Do I enforce my opinions on this board in a dictating fashion? No.

By all means, take this to the boards owners.

 

[speed]

What am I saying about you? I'm simply showing that you have an existing bias, and you are not only PMing members to tell them to stop posting to such an effect, but now, you're denying that you have a problem with opinions contrary to your own. Based on this, being an impartial moderator seems to be beyond your range.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth.

If we are guilty of attempting to stem the posting of information contrary to the facts, history, and basic human values, then yes, color me guilty. I think you will find your argument--which is based on the protection of monstrous ideas--will get you nowhere with any higher power, other than the local Nazi chapter.

Furthermore, any threads that have been shut down--and those of Norsemaiden in particular, were based on clearly false information, which in some I argued against. We have entire threads lately that are based on crock-pot theories. I have pm'ed Norsemaiden, numerous times about her constant unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about Jews, Blacks and others.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I want to do a thread about promiscuity. I nearly posted it but I am having problems trying to work out how explicit (not gratuitously - but definitely explicit) this is allowed to be. Promiscuity is relevant to many issues of human behaviour and society. I agree not to talk about race in my posts on this subject. I was going to refer in the thread starter to research regarding penis/testes size in apes and how that relates to their behaviour and how it has recently been discovered that promiscuous bats trade off brain size for larger testicles. PLEASE ADVISE!!!

 

[judas69]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has had past issues with either Speed (especially) and Final Product (to a lesser extent), and their capabilities as far as impartial moderation goes.

My issue with Speed began with his indiscriminate removal of my posts and consequently, I rarely post here anymore (less than 1 post per week in this area) for just this reason. I for one would like to see Speed removed, but that's my opinion. If anyone backs me up on this or just feels like we need a new group of moderators, you can pm me privately.

 

[speed]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has had past issues with either Speed (especially) and Final Product (to a lesser extent), and their capabilities as far as impartial moderation goes.

My issue with Speed began with his indiscriminate removal of my posts and consequently, I rarely post here anymore (less than 1 post per week in this area) for just this reason. I for one would like to see Speed removed, but that's my opinion. If anyone backs me up on this or just feels like we need a new group of moderators, you can pm me privately.

I believe I aplogized and undeleted them hours later. I am not perfect; mistakes will be made. We have only been moderators for almost two months, and this is the only incident I would have changed.

However, you clearly have a personal problem with me that started way before this incident--which was a personal, not a philosophical argument anyway.

If anyone else has a problem, please feel free to post them on this thread. It will only assist us in becoming better moderators, or in the case that everyone wishes one of us to step down, I for one will do so.

 

[judas69]

Actually, I insist they PM me privately; anonymity is important here if you really want fairness, Speed.

Don't get me wrong though, I just came wondering into this area when I was somewhat surprised (but not really) to see there were others who had a few concerns aswell. You make it sound like you're policing the nation or something. Remember, it's a fucking metal board ..posts don't kill people; no ones life is at stake here.

 

[derek]

If you feel the need to have a secret PM society where you all conspire to remove us then so be it.

Speed and myself (with a few hurdles to begin with) have been pretty damn fair on this board and have tried to approach everything rationally and fairly.

I honestly like(ed) these boards and much enjoyed posting, but Since becoming moderator it has been an endless merry-go-round of childish games and back-stabbing.

I also ask that anyone who feels our moderation is fine, to say so. If this board does disprove unanimously of my moderation, I am more than willing to stand down.

 

[judas69]

Here's a piece of advice, stop being so anal and you'll have less trouble. If people are in an uproar about something then do something otherwise, just let it be .. things work out for the better that way.

 

[Mitton]

Congratulations Final Product and Speed I am sure you will make this forum a pleasure to post on.

 

[derek]

Here's a piece of advice, stop being so anal and you'll have less trouble. If people are in an uproar about something then do something otherwise, just let it be .. things work out for the better that way.

I don't think we are being "anal".

We're just still getting a hang of this moderator thing. Give us a break.

 

[derek]

Congratulations Final Product and Speed I am sure you will make this forum a pleasure to post on.

Welcome!

 

[speed]

Actually, I insist they PM me privately; anonymity is important here if you really want fairness, Speed.

Don't get me wrong though, I just came wondering into this area when I was somewhat surprised (but not really) to see there were others who had a few concerns aswell. You make it sound like you're policing the nation or something. Remember, it's a fucking metal board ..posts don't kill people; no ones life is at stake here.

Judas, you clearly have a personal gripe, and or crusade here against me especially. I chuckle when I read: "I insist they PM me privately; anonymity is important here if you want fairness, Speed." Apparently you are now some paragon of justice and objectivity. I confess, such a change in character within a month, is impressive.