My guitars are phase-canceling when they shouldn't be

[He's Dead, Jim]

I tried searching for threads on this, but all I found was my own thread from a couple of months ago in the Practice section. I am totally confused about phase cancellation as it pertains to harmonized guitar parts.

I have a melodic death metal song with 4 guitar tracks. In some parts, the guitars are harmonized in diatonic thirds. When they're panned hard L/R, it sounds fine. But if I even budge to 90-90 L/R, phase cancellation starts cropping up. I thought this was only the case for sounds that are nearly-but-not-quite identical, which shouldn't apply to harmonies?

Additionally, when I have a part with a chugga-chugga breakdown over 2 more harmonized guitars panned hard L/R, the leads start canceling the chugs.

I'm referencing an Unearth album for this mix and I even noticed that during their harmonized leads, the leads are harmonized on each side, i.e., L = E and G, and R = E and G, for instance. If I did this in my mix, it would create phase cancelation madness, but somehow they're able to do it and it sounds fine.

Sorry if I'm being stupid somehow, but I can't wrap my head around this. Thanks in advance for any replies.

EDIT: Here are the examples.

This is a verse. It's just 2 guitars, not 4, but adding the other 2 doesn't seem to make a ton of difference.


Here are those same 2 guitars panned hard left together.


And here's the chorus. 2 are hard left, 2 are hard right. Each part- the wanky guitars, and the rhythm guitars, sound fine with their respective mirror companion, but when you throw them together, it's awful.

 

[JeffTD]

Just to be sure, you've got individual performances of each part? In the Unearth album you're referencing, E and G on each side of the mix = 4 performances total.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

Right, I have four separate tracks playing simultaneously, but the phase cancellation occurs even with just 2 guitars.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Same guitar used on all 4 takes? Same amp?

Is it possible that 2 different pickups could cause phase issues? I've heard of amps being out of phase with each other before but I'm just recalling slight details I (think) I recall reading about.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

Yeah, same guitar and same amp sim. Here are some examples:

This is a verse. It's just 2 guitars, not 4, but adding the other 2 doesn't seem to make a ton of difference.


Here are those same 2 guitars panned hard left together.


And here's the chorus. 2 are hard left, 2 are hard right. Each part- the wanky guitars, and the rhythm guitars, sound fine with their respective mirror companion, but when you throw them together, it's awful.

 

[Red Phoenix]

Probably not what you are looking for because it don't solve the prob at its source. But you can use Audiocation Phase on every track to fix the phase accurately.

 

[Habsburgs]

you cant have anything other than 100/100 with ampsims or cab sims. Only use 1 track or 2 tracks panned 100/100. One ampsim or cabsim cant process more than 2 tracks.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

That was the problem. I had no idea that sims had that limitation. Thanks for the reply.

 

[JeffTD]

Oh yeah, didn't even think of that. Every guitar part should have its own ampsim running.