Summing to Mono = Horrible guitars

[abt]

I don't think it is a question about whether checking mixes in mono is a valuable tool or not, I think we all agree that it is, it's whether a mix needs to sounds good in mono or not. In my opinion sometimes you reach a point where you have to say "you know what? this sucks ass in mono but it's not relevant to the majority of my target audience". I also think that metal guitars usually sound shit in mono. The more guitars you add the worse it gets. I also think that metal listeners are more likely to have better listening environs that other genres.

 

[Force666]

I also think that metal listeners are more likely to have better listening environs that other genres.

Like in an '85 Camaro with the treble on 11?

 

[abt]

Like in an '85 Camaro with the treble on 11?

I believe the Mullet was invented for exactly this purpose. The theory being one should remove the hair from around the ears, thus improving the stereo image. The hair at the back allows you still look awesome.

 

[Wolfeman]

It's funny how when there's talk about drums it's all gotta be "sample accurate" and sliding tracks to be in phase, blah, blah. But then when it comes to mono capability with guitars, everyone's like "whatever". I don't think it's the end all be all or anything, but everyone should check. Obviously it's not gonna sound epic summed to mono, but if tracks dissapper, there should probably be some attention to why.

At least I'm not the only one that thinks so.

 

[exoslime]

i always check my mixes in mono too, but i struggle big time that my distorted rhythmn guitars dont sound strange, but i made the experience that my demos with recorded amp/cab sounds better in mono than direct recorded guitars / or impulses..

here in the office of my dayjob, we habe 3 small compact radios, 2 of them are newer, one is like 15 years old, but all 3 are only mono.

and whats the deal with M/S Mixing, ist this a way to solve the mono compatibilty issue? or mabye analog summing is better on that then digital summing?
i dont know, but i´m willing to learn and improve on that point, because mono compatibillty is very important for me. (at least for the rhythmn guitars.. for everything else i could care less)

cheers
exoslime

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

It's funny how when there's talk about drums it's all gotta be "sample accurate" and sliding tracks to be in phase, blah, blah. But then when it comes to mono capability with guitars, everyone's like "whatever". I don't think it's the end all be all or anything, but everyone should check. Obviously it's not gonna sound epic summed to mono, but if tracks dissapper, there should probably be some attention to why.

Exactly. After tuning the guitars for every take, recording one note at a time, quantizing the notes and generally not taking the easiest route for a polished sound, I'd think pushing one fucking button to check the mono compatibility shouldn't feel like a huge effort.

I also think that metal listeners are more likely to have better listening environs that other genres.

That's just absurd. Ever been into someone's home who's big into classical music?

 

[crillemannen]

I always check my mixes in mono. It is a great way to hear if the vocals/snare etc are to loud. And i really think you're mixes should sound good in mono. You should be able to hear everything from snare to vocals to overheads.

These days everything is almost dual mono. Think about it?? For instance in metal we record the rythm guitar twice= dual mono not stereo.

 

[Force666]

These days everything is almost dual mono. Think about it?? For instance in metal we record the rythm guitar twice= dual mono not stereo.

It's still stereo if you're doing two takes. Even if you recorded one take with 2 microphones and panned them left/right, that is stereo.

 

[ze kink]

I check my mixes in mono too, seems silly not to do it. Often I'll also notice something that I need to fix that I didn't realize in stereo.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I don't bother

 

[AerialThesis]

It's still stereo if you're doing two takes. Even if you recorded one take with 2 microphones and panned them left/right, that is stereo.

Your making a mistake here on your first statement. Recording in mono is recording in mono, even if it's over 9000 takes of mono recording. Tracking in stereo is what the word stereo is all about. It's about tracking with more than one mic so that the source and the many reflections of the source in an environement won't get summed in a single signal. Your O-H is considered as stereo, not the guitars if you double tracked in mono. Your second statement is correct. Anyways, I'm getting off topic..

 

[Metaltastic]

Well now we're just getting into semantics

 

[crillemannen]

Your making a mistake here on your first statement. Recording in mono is recording in mono, even if it's over 9000 takes of mono recording. Tracking in stereo is what the word stereo is all about. It's about tracking with more than one mic so that the source and the many reflections of the source in an environement won't get summed in a single signal. Your O-H is considered as stereo, not the guitars if you double tracked in mono. Your second statement is correct. Anyways, I'm getting off topic..

That was what i was trying to say

 

[darthjujuu]

rush limbaugh airs in mono, and has no problem with it. his logic is that he doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth.





....sorry.

 

[Force666]

Your making a mistake here on your first statement. Recording in mono is recording in mono, even if it's over 9000 takes of mono recording. Tracking in stereo is what the word stereo is all about. It's about tracking with more than one mic so that the source and the many reflections of the source in an environement won't get summed in a single signal. Your O-H is considered as stereo, not the guitars if you double tracked in mono. Your second statement is correct. Anyways, I'm getting off topic..

Ya I get it. Except you ignored the part where as soon as you pan two mono sources Left and Right it's STEREO. There's no left and right in MONO. My point was if you copy and pasted a mono track twice and panned them left and right, they sum to mono. If they are different takes panned left and right, it's stereo.

We're talking about the mix, not the tracking. Why would you need to sum mono tracks to mono?

 

[danimoraniz]

Too bad this thread had no real solution.. I'm searching some answers for months and this video is the closest i've got. Please if someone knows how to mix 2 guitars to have a good mono translation it'll be awesome! (Also, what do you think about this video?)

 

[Machinated]

Too bad this thread had no real solution.. I'm searching some answers for months and this video is the closest i've got. Please if someone knows how to mix 2 guitars to have a good mono translation it'll be awesome! (Also, what do you think about this video?)

your best bet is to check in mono as you go. try and make the mix sound right in stereo and in mono. Mixing guitars while in mono may lead you to turning them up a little louder than you normally might, it’s something I’ve seen Alan Moulder mention when he’s working on a mono auratone

 

[danimoraniz]

your best bet is to check in mono as you go. try and make the mix sound right in stereo and in mono. Mixing guitars while in mono may lead you to turning them up a little louder than you normally might, it’s something I’ve seen Alan Moulder mention when he’s working on a mono auratone

I guess this might be the best and only way tho.. Thanks! and also I need more experience.. but i'ts weird how there's not much info about it online.

 

[Machinated]

I guess this might be the best and only way tho.. Thanks! and also I need more experience.. but i'ts weird how there's not much info about it online.

it’s hard to be specific because it’s mostly dependent on circumstances that will vary song to song and mix to mix. you’ll probably need a variety of techniques in your locker to tackle issues like this in different ways.

if you can hear a problem then you’re half of the way there - I think it’s best to overcome them in a creative and logical way on a case by case basis. I’d recommend a less is more approach to stereo things - being too heavy handed is likely to cause more damage than good

 

[C_F_H_13]

I guess this might be the best and only way tho.. Thanks! and also I need more experience.. but i'ts weird how there's not much info about it online.

Just to add my two cents in, I think partly it's not something you should be overly concerned about. I think I big thing with mono'ing is that there's enough midrange information. Your stereo info should dip in volume, that's the point, but having a rich midrange will make them still sound apparent in mono.

If it is a huge concern for some reason, you can always add a mono triple of your rhythms in the center.

Take any golden age sneap mix (like killswitch or testament) and run it through an MS eq or something. Listen to just the sides, it's basically guitars and cymbals and vocal fx and that's it. Listen to the center and it's basically kick/snare/bass/vocals and the tiniest amount of guitars. They collapse fairly well to mono, but his mixes always have a killer midrange.