Summing to Mono = Horrible guitars

[Ganks]

One of the first mixes that I did got played in a bar in Tallahassee, FL.
The mix was horrible in stereo.


I'm sure your mixes will sound fine at bars/pubs/clubs.

My shitty, horrible mix sounded amazing through their sound system.

If your mix sounds bad, blame it on the sound system at the club.

No one will know the difference.

 

[dcb]

i highly recommend checking your mixes in mono - especially if you're working with fake backing vocal tracks ! (autotuned to death, that work well in the mix)
but if they shine through in mono, people will 9 out of 10 times react like this : "awwgh!?!? this sounds sooo fake..."
every pro mix summed to mono still has all the information so the song works. of course its not possibble to make stereo mix sound exactly the same in mono (obviously),
but nevertheless its never wrong to check what your mix MIGHT sound like in mono.
i actually love my mixes in mono ;-) and i do leveling in mono, too. really helps to focus on level - not on spatial information.

 

[amarshism]

Until I started checking my mixes in mono I used to use some stereo wideners and whatnot but when checking in mono it sounded shit. So I stopped using them. That being said, most pas I've heard my stuff on have been stereo?? I don't understand why you'd assume why most pas are mono??

 

[amarshism]

Ptc I'm referring to the pa in the clubs that also are used for live bands.

 

[Morgan C]

i do leveling in mono, too. really helps to focus on level - not on spatial information.

Yeah, lately I've begun setting levels in mono. Not absolute, but rough guidelines. It really helps especially with setting snare and vocals just right, because depending on what system you're listening back on the Centre or Side channels are more emphasised which can mess with you. Put the mix in mono and adjust to rough levels and then you'll know it'll all translate well. Can't say I've ever had a huge problem with guitars tho :/

 

[MortenDK]

I do my EQing and leveling in mono too!, just makes it easier when I go to stereo cause it will only be minor changes then when mixing.
Mono is still very importent, cause it will make the mix more focussed!!, and you can get the parts to fit together quicker. And I find that the mix will sound more together EQ wise aswell when I go to stereo. But ymmv!.

 

[-Noodles-]

Ptc I'm referring to the pa in the clubs that also are used for live bands.

the music maybe coming in on two channels hard panned, but most bands are mono - and some clubs just have mono PAs to solve problems.

why? just search on the forum - loads of topics.

 

[if6was9]

Been thinking of starting my mixes in mono and throwing them out to stereo near the end of the mix stage. My guitars fall apart when in momo too- I also notice that my drum verb sounds weird and the clarity drops a bit

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Disregarding mono compatibility is fine if you know it won't be needed in the material you're working with, but seriously, "fuck mono"? Good luck doing any other form of audio work (radio, TV etc.) when the world runs out of metal bands to record...

 

[Metaltastic]

So what happens to the mix when you're standing any distance away from the speakers? It diminishes to a mono point source the further away you get.

Nowhere near to the same degree as it just coming out of 1 speaker though, certainly not to a degree that anything as drastic as disappearing guitars will occur - and obviously, it all depends where you expect your music to end up being played, but yeah, from my perspective, I'm not gonna be losing sleep worrying about whether my tunes will end up in da club

 

[AerialThesis]

I checked out old bands like King Crimson and Genesis with the 2 channels summed up to mono.
I can still hear the song with almost no change in the sound as I believe they previously mixed everything in mono anyways and panned stuff with the apparition of stereo systems.
When something is hard panned, I can still hear it's reverb quite well without any phase problems .
I guess mixing in mono was alot more important in those days.
I realised tought that they mostly placed and compressed what is playing in the center of the mix and usually placed the quieter, non compressed stuff on the sides.
I believe it let's you hear the reverb to it's full defnition and gives you a more accurate sound imagery while still being punchy.
The only problem with metal is that we normallly mix the guitars really loud hard panned L and R...

 

[PhilR]

Nowhere near to the same degree as it just coming out of 1 speaker though, certainly not to a degree that anything as drastic as disappearing guitars will occur - and obviously, it all depends where you expect your music to end up being played, but yeah, from my perspective, I'm not gonna be losing sleep worrying about whether my tunes will end up in da club

We've had tunes we've recorded played at local rocknights on plenty of occaisions. Many bands go out of their way to get their demos played by local DJ's and most of them are happy to oblige outside of dancefloor primetime. So it's not like it's totally unlikely.

Ultimately unless you've resigned yourself to mixing for Ipods (which is just plain sad in my opinion) then mixing in mono is simply another technique that any well-rounded mixer simply needs to learn to a greater or lesser extent.

 

[arv_foh]

I don't think most PAs are mono, just most live engineers choose to mix in mono (or close to it) because it's more pleasing for the crowd to be able to hear everything

 

[Wolfeman]

Do any of you anti mono check guys ever listen to music on a home sound system? If you are turned side ways, walking around the house, etc etc, you will be listening in 'mono' a lot. It may not be important for those of us sitting at studio setups with equilateral listening positions all day long, but for a lot of people out there(the fans that buy the music) I think this is an important thing to take into consideration....

 

[if6was9]

I don't think most PAs are mono, just most live engineers choose to mix in mono (or close to it) because it's more pleasing for the crowd to be able to hear everything

Yeah, even the crappiest systems I've worked on have been stereo. Panning just isn't as used in live work seeing as crowds aren't all in a position to hear well from both speakers. For most guys panning usually won't go much beyond 20% or so each side when mixing a band

 

[Ronixis]

Just checked the Paramore song Brick by boring brick (CLA mix) and in the chorus, rhythm guitars disappear completely when listened in mono. Didn't seem to affect the record sales, eh

If you are turned side ways, walking around the house, etc etc, you will be listening in 'mono' a lot.

In this kind of instance, you are mostly listening the L or R channel in solo, which gives a quite different result when compared to summing a stereo mix into a monotrack.

 

[Wolfeman]

Just checked the Paramore song Brick by boring brick (CLA mix) and in the chorus, rhythm guitars disappear completely when listened in mono. Didn't seem to affect the record sales, eh



In this kind of instance, you are mostly listening the L or R channel in solo, which gives a quite different result when compared to summing a stereo mix into a monotrack.

No, you aren't. If both left and right speakers are outputting sound, they will blend no matter where you are(edit- well unless you are in an optimal position of course, but that's not what we are referring to here). One might have less level, but the end result is the same.

 

[Metaltastic]

But the point I've been trying to make is that with two discrete drivers outputting a stereo mix, it's never gonna be anywhere near as bad as just one speaker, because even if you're standing in a place where some of the direct signals cancel out, all the reflections from the room will supplement it, at least enough that, again, it won't be anywhere near the cancellation from either a) actually summing the mix to mono, and/or b) outputting it from a single driver.

 

[Wolfeman]

But the point I've been trying to make is that with two discrete drivers outputting a stereo mix, it's never gonna be anywhere near as bad as just one speaker, because even if you're standing in a place where some of the direct signals cancel out, all the reflections from the room will supplement it, at least enough that, again, it won't be anywhere near the cancellation from either a) actually summing the mix to mono, and/or b) outputting it from a single driver.

Oh I agree with you on all points. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that checking your mix in mono and making sure all is well, will just make it that much better when those 'mono' situations do happen.

 

[Force666]

It's funny how when there's talk about drums it's all gotta be "sample accurate" and sliding tracks to be in phase, blah, blah. But then when it comes to mono capability with guitars, everyone's like "whatever". I don't think it's the end all be all or anything, but everyone should check. Obviously it's not gonna sound epic summed to mono, but if tracks dissapper, there should probably be some attention to why.