need help with vocal chain

[kernelxsanders]

im having this problem with the vocal chain where there is a weird hiss/noise whenever there isnt anything being said. most of it is able to be gated out, but if you listen to the clip, youll hear what i mean. (just so you know, i made this rough song in like 15 minutes)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8017980/iHateHipsters.mp3

vocal chain includes:
sm57 > Maudio Fast Track > TLs saturation > Rvox > gate > Rcomp > Q10 HPF@125, -3bd cut@275, 4db boost@5k-14k, -5db cut@21k > DeEsser > Saturation > Stereo Touch > Reaper's classic compressor > Gclip running to submix of Rocket compressor > ReaDelay > Rverb.

seems like a sh*t too many things to have in the chain. so please let me know what i can alter, take out, add, etc to make it sound more natural yet in your face. if it helps, id like to reference ABACABB's Survivalist album. thats kinda how id like it to sound.


*EDIT: since i lost the raw vocal files, i couldnt edit this project. but here is a mix i just finished and it'll show you where i stand as far as vocal quality is concerned.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8017980/defiance.mp3

 

[AEL89]

No offense dude, because I'm sure you've spent a lot of time (especially judging by that vocal chain) on this, but those vocals don't sound too good - you're overdoing it. Seriously just go back to basics. Start with filtering lows, maybe low shelf cut if it still has an excess of bottom end. Use your ears from there - vocals love a bit of 3k so boost it a little to help them cut through.

Compression for this style I always use something 1176-esque. Medium attack, fastest release, high ratio (all buttons might work). I like something opto-style on the vocal bus but I'll also use one last super-fast compressor to catch any last peaks.

All FX I do as sends, and mix the 100% wet signal to taste. Sometimes I'll use a delay into a reverb. Reverb - short plate, I like it quite dark too so roll off the high stuff and high shelf cut.

I usually put a tape saturation plug on the vocals first too. If you want grit parallel compression is your friend: 1176, fastest attack, fastest release, all buttons, loads of gain reduction - blend to taste. You might have to get funky with EQing before and after that compressor.

Oh and don't gate - do everything by hand (unless you're gating distortion or reverb/delay).

Just go back to this with fresh ears and I'm sure you'll nail a great vocal sound.

 

[NSGUITAR]

Just automate it dude.

Wherever he's not vocalizing, simply automate the volume.

I agree 100% with AEL, delete everything you have in your vocal chain, and throw a compressor, de-esser and maybe some EQ on the chain instead.. Then whatever it absolutely needs from there (i.e. verb, delay blah blah) do it.. Then just add a limiter to even it out and you've got yourself a vox chain.

 

[kernelxsanders]

thanks man, thats exactly the kind of help im looking for. i know that ive been over doing it by way too much, which is why i i posted this thread. i basically want to get the best sound i can using the simplest fx chain. and as you can see, im pretty new to mixing vocals, and i dont know all these "textbook" ideas about engineering music, i just take what i know and apply it to get what i think sounds best, at least what my ability will render.

could you explain what you mean by "1176"?

 

[NSGUITAR]

Here's a vocal chain I'd use for this type of music. Works wonders:

 

[jimwilbourne]

Nick, your screen shots are always the most helpful thing ever.

but yeah dude. that's a TON of stuff on your chain.
so pretty much ditto to NSGUITAR's post.

1176 refers to a type of compressor.
Waves has a plugin version.
as well as other companies.

 

[Plankis]

Here's a vocal chain I'd use for this type of music. Works wonders:

How much gain reduction on each of the comps/limiters? Much more interesting to know than the threshold.

 

[jeff666]

This song just made my day thanks. cool high voice btw \m/

 

[colonel kurtz]

TLs saturation > Rvox > gate > Rcomp > Q10 HPF@125, -3bd cut@275, 4db boost@5k-14k, -5db cut@21k > DeEsser > Saturation > Stereo Touch > Reaper's classic compressor > Gclip running to submix of Rocket compressor > ReaDelay > Rverb

dude this is just fucking madness

get rid of the names of the plugs, and you have this:

saturation-->compressor/EQ-->gate-->compressor-->EQ-->de-ess(which is a form of compression)-->saturation-->stereo silliness-->compressor-->clipper-->compressor-->delay-->verb

you shouldn't need any more than 2 instances of compression, along with a little EQ and maybe the de-esser. throw in the delay and verb to taste, and you're done!

 

[Ermz]

Try this:

R-DeEsser or Waves C4/C6 set to control 's' > SSL Channel EQ> RVox > 1176 > L1 > Decapitator, Trash, TwinTube or something like that

When the headphone bleed and sounds of the vocalist shuffling his/her feet are as loud as the vocal itself, that's usually the sign that you have enough compression

 

[AEL89]

thanks man, thats exactly the kind of help im looking for. i know that ive been over doing it by way too much, which is why i i posted this thread. i basically want to get the best sound i can using the simplest fx chain. and as you can see, im pretty new to mixing vocals, and i dont know all these "textbook" ideas about engineering music, i just take what i know and apply it to get what i think sounds best, at least what my ability will render.

could you explain what you mean by "1176"?

An 1176 is a famous compressor used on possibly every pro recording you've ever heard. If not the real thing then at least another piece of hardware or software emulating what it does.

I didn't want to sound brutal in my first post - I've definitely been guilty of getting carried away with post processing in the past. My last piece of advice to you would be to try all the stuff people have posted here (I've heard Ermz' and Nick's mixes and their vocals are always super up front and sound great) and work a chain out that you like.

Don't be afraid to try radical stuff too. I've seen some guys post on here saying they're cranking over 20dB of gain reduction on 1 compressor rather than staged compression and it still sounds great! Just whatever works!

Let us know how you get on - definitely keen to hear how much it changes your mix.

 

[kernelxsanders]

so i tried to open the project, and the original vocal files were gone, all i have are the printed tracks. so i guess trying to improve that wont be happening. but here is a link to another thread of my second most recent (first completed) project with vocals and the vocal chain i tend to use more often.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...d-vocals-needs-help-vocal-chain-included.html

i would say this song is more accurate to the quality im working with as far as vocals are concerned. but im going to start fresh with a new vocal chain for this song and apply what you guys have explained above and repost finally. but if anybody has anything to say about the above mix, please dont hesitate to comment

 

[NSGUITAR]

so i tried to open the project, and the original vocal files were gone, all i have are the printed tracks. so i guess trying to improve that wont be happening. but here is a link to another thread of my second most recent (first completed) project with vocals and the vocal chain i tend to use more often.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...d-vocals-needs-help-vocal-chain-included.html

i would say this song is more accurate to the quality im working with as far as vocals are concerned. but im going to start fresh with a new vocal chain for this song and apply what you guys have explained above and repost finally. but if anybody has anything to say about the above mix, please dont hesitate to comment

Find the backup file man. It should be there somewhere.

 

[brianhood]

NS guitar's screenshot is seriously my exact vocal chain for this style of music haha.
Did i post those settings somewhere dude? Or do we just happen to have the same chain?

 

[NSGUITAR]

NS guitar's screenshot is seriously my exact vocal chain for this style of music haha.
Did i post those settings somewhere dude? Or do we just happen to have the same chain?

L2 and everything?!

That's fucked up and I've not seen any screenshots from you dude!


Certainly your threshold and small details are different, right?

 

[kernelxsanders]

well, i was organizing my folders tha ti keep my projects, DIs, etc in, because my hard drive was almost full, and i saved everything i needed EXCEPT the raw vocal files for this project *facepalm*

mind commenting on how this sounds?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8017980/landofthefreeandhomeoftheslaves.mp3

ps, this is about the time where it this thread should be switched to the rate my tone forum

 

[chdrummer]

NS guitar's screenshot is seriously my exact vocal chain for this style of music haha.
Did i post those settings somewhere dude? Or do we just happen to have the same chain?

you posted those settings talking about pleas vocal chain if im not mistaken.

 

[P-E]

^

They do seem like pretty universal settings though, to be honest. A good no-nonsense vocal chain.

I really dig Ermz' approach too. EQ how necessary (including deessing which is somewhat multiband compression), compress in stages to fuckery then use a bit of saturation always yields good results in my experience, especially when big high shelves are needed (vocals tracked somewhat dark), all that compression and saturation smoothes it nicely.

 

[kernelxsanders]

can somebody post a link to an 1176 compressor vst? the one i tried earlier wiped all of my waves plugins and i had to reinstall waves.

 

[Ermz]

The best you'll get is the Softube FET or the Waves CLA Classic Compressors. The CLA pack is indispensable for ITB mixing IMO, and you'll get two flavors of 1176 in there. Not sure if that 40% off sale is still on, but the CLA pack went for peanuts a month ago.