Netherlands the best country in the world...

[zmetallica]

honestly i think age of consent should be like 13. it varies from state to state in the US. a bunch have it at 18. people should be more informed about potential preditors. besides i think most people by this age are smart enough to know whats going on. especially with all the sex ed.

girls like older guys a lot. is that to say that their b/f is breaking the law if they do love each other and have been dating for a long time?

besides this shit isn't enforced half the time unless someone 'complains'

laws like this shouldn't exist or should be loosened.

when i think of something as law it should mean that ANYONE doing this should face the consequences. it isn't that way in society now. there are so many laws the average citizen doesn't know them, which only makes nearly anyong a criminal. look at speed limits. how many people break that law? all in all europe is way ahead of the US.

people should start using common sense when they make laws and stop trying to save their own ass and in the words of bill and ted "be awesome to each other"

as far as the child porn and sex with animals, to each his own.

 

[JenniferGentle]

I think child pornography is disgusting and children have to be protected, not to each his own! That's disgusting.

 

[El Stormo]

honestly i think age of consent should be like 13.

You nuts or something? Can you honestly tell me that if an 18-year old guy (at best!) has a relationship with a 13-year old girl, that that's not disgusting?

Oh, and about Europe, age of consent is 16 here too. And a good thing it is.

Child porn, sex with animals, it's all disgusting. I can follow when you say "to each his own" when you're talking about, say, S&M. As long as we're dealing with consenting adults, and nothing but consenting adults, yes, to each his own. But child porn and animal sex? That's all right by you?

 

[Oguz286]

im ashamed that im dutch right now....

Why should you be ashamed? If you're not supporting them, then it is not your decision. Politics doesn't represent every dutch citizen (thank God).

Oh yeah, keep on rockin'

 

[zmetallica]

well no, i'm not saying that, but i feel that if they wanna make it they should. if it were to be on TV channels and public and shit then thats wrong, but as long as there is consent to everything involved (can't really speak for an animal, but yeah) then i don't see a major problem with some losers jerking off to it. just cause you don't like something doesn't mean it should be against the law. if it was forced in your face thats a different thing. there should be rules to regulate everything, but nothing to say "this isn't allowed cause i don't like it" cause there will be somewhere, where someone does like it and a great amount of someones.

and i see nothing wrong with an 18 yr old dating a 13 year old. NOTHING. thats a 5 year difference. thats hardly anything. so they met young so what! i see something wrong if the 18 year old starts abusing and doing stuff against the 13year old's will. but that isn't the issue here. it is the government saying that they don't like something and thus it should be illegal.

i guess 'child porn' has to be defined more for me to have a real opinion. but as far as i know, recording someone under the age of 18 is considered illegal in the US. maybe it should be 10-12 as by that time most kids are taught about sex and the like. it is their choice by then, provided they have the proper knowledge of what is going on and what will happen.

there are some sick fucks out there yes, and they should be prosecuted, but there are also a ton of innocent people. example: i know of people (in my town) who are pre-HS who have had sex and who knows how much else. i'm talking 13. older guys? i don't know for sure, but probably, and i can say that they are slutty and stuff, but its their choice. are you saying that they should not be allowed to do what they want?

there's a law in NJ that says that anyone under 16 CAN'T have sex and it is illegal, with anyone. what kind of law is that?

the laws need to be refined to protect the innocent and not in anyway hurt them. innocent would mean someone who has done no wrong by moral standards. aka average joe who isn't a rapist or killer. yeah me and my older b/f had sex and now we're both in trouble with the law.

my first g/f was 24 i was 17, 7 years difference. she was a bit crazy, but it didn't matter i enjoyed being with her and we did everything. legal? not in the slightest, but was there any abuse or anyone doing anything against their will? nope. if i met her when i was a few years younger i don't think much would have been different.

anyway i'm against child porn stuff if it is against their will or anything of that sort. but whose to say that every one of these IS against the will of the individual. i'm sure a lil kid can scream 'no' or react in some way to 'fight it'. you shouldnt' put that assumption on it. besides if the porn isn't forced upon you through the media, what do you care? if noone mentioned anything about it i doubt anyone would know that it even existed.

 

[El Stormo]

You don't seem to understand a human mind. A child's ability to discern the normal from the abnormal is underdeveloped, especially at the mere age of thirteen. Thirteen-year-olds are not fully grown, physically and mentally, to understand what sex is really like. I don't mind a five-year-difference, but an eighteen-year-old who has sex with a 13-year-old is abusing that person, even if he/she agrees with it. Plain and simple.

 

[Jeff-Loomis-fan]

You don't seem to understand a human mind. A child's ability to discern the normal from the abnormal is underdeveloped, especially at the mere age of thirteen. Thirteen-year-olds are not fully grown, physically and mentally, to understand what sex is really like. I don't mind a five-year-difference, but an eighteen-year-old who has sex with a 13-year-old is abusing that person, even if he/she agrees with it. Plain and simple.

agreed

 

[Lord Foul]

It has a lot to do with how you prepare your children for life. In the US, we encourage our children to remain children as long as possible. A higher age of consent is perhaps appropriate here. In other parts of the world, a 13 year old might very well be an adult in every important sense. In this case I see no problem with a 13 year old having sex.

Because individals vary greatly in regards to their preparedness to behave as adults, a blanket law that grants privileges by age is nothing more than a quick-fix. I don't think most 21 year olds are mature enough to drink, drive, or have sex in this country, much less serve in the armed forces or vote. I tend to favor a system of earned citizenship that grants full privileges to whoever can demonstrate the responsibility to handle them, regardless of age. Giving priveleges to people who aren't ready and then punishing them for their failures later is a reactive solution at best. I'd prefer to see something proactive.

 

[El Stormo]

It has a lot to do with how you prepare your children for life. In the US, we encourage our children to remain children as long as possible. A higher age of consent is perhaps appropriate here. In other parts of the world, a 13 year old might very well be an adult in every important sense. In this case I see no problem with a 13 year old having sex.

Because individals vary greatly in regards to their preparedness to behave as adults, a blanket law that grants privileges by age is nothing more than a quick-fix. I don't think most 21 year olds are mature enough to drink, drive, or have sex in this country, much less serve in the armed forces or vote. I tend to favor a system of earned citizenship that grants full privileges to whoever can demonstrate the responsibility to handle them, regardless of age. Giving priveleges to people who aren't ready and then punishing them for their failures later is a reactive solution at best. I'd prefer to see something proactive.

So does everyone, but that's a utopia. There is no way to determine someone's maturity objectively and accurately. The only way to make sure rules are enforceable is by basing them on age.

As for cultures where sex is good from 13-years-old, well, this is Europe (for me), and bollocks to your culture. You live here, you play by our rules. Age for legal consent in Belgium is 16. If you think your culture is more important, then go back to the country where your culture is dominant.

 

[Dying Freedom]

In other parts of the world, a 13 year old might very well be an adult in every important sense.

Except that a 13-year old girl is not biologically ready for reproduction. Therefore she cannot really understand the emotional aspects of sex.

 

[Lord Foul]

For the record, the youngest girl known to have given birth was 5 years, 8 months old.

 

[Dying Freedom]

If that's true, it's a wonder she didn't die giving birth.

 

[Lord Foul]

Delivery was presumably by Caesarian section.

Based on the research I have read, average age of menarche in almost the entire world is between 12 and 13.5 years, with actual fertility ensuing anywhere from immediately before, to 2 years after menarche. It looks safe to assume that a "teenaged" girl is biologically capable of reproduction.

The age of majority is a social construct, not one derived from natural law.

 

[Dying Freedom]

Well, I can't argue with facts. But a 13-year old person is still in the middle of puberty and in the process of becoming an adult. The development is psychological as well as physical. She might be fertile, but in my opinion not ready for parenthood.

And to get back to the topic: Pedophiles aren't fucking children because of their love for them, they're doing it because it gets them off. It's sexual exploitation.

 

[JenniferGentle]

Well, I can't argue with facts. But a 13-year old person is still in the middle of puberty and in the process of becoming an adult. The development is psychological as well as physical. She might be fertile, but in my opinion not ready for parenthood.

And to get back to the topic: Pedophiles aren't fucking children because of their love for them, they're doing it because it gets them off. It's sexual exploitation.

Yes I totally agree. Even though it would be hard, a 16 year old MEDICALLY could safely carry a child. A girl shouldn't be having sex until she could SAFELY carry a child to term. A 13 year old girl's health would be compromised as well as the baby's assuming she did not recieve an abortion.

I wasn't a mentally adult person at 13. So...I am disturbed by those statements someone made before.

 

[zmetallica]

thanks for backing me up a bit lord foul.

i do agree it is sexual exploitation, but not in all cases, once again you are assuming it is that.

"The age of majority is a social construct, not one derived from natural law." - that is what i'm saying and more than that it is law for your country/state

we aren't talking about raising kids here we (at least i am) are talking about how an age is mostly a #.
as far as the mind developing thing, til 14 your mind is still "developing" but at that same extent it doesn't mean that you can't know whats right and whats wrong. i blame parents who don't know how to raise their children. for a lot of lack of education about sexual preditors. that's what it is about that everyone is so eww about it. if i said that two people really loved each other and such and got together it would shock you. i have examples from some of my cousins. the guy waiting 5 years til she was 18 or something because of the law to fully go out, but they found each other and it was like love at first sight. if the law wasn't there it would be less awkward and less looked down upon.

like i have said, i think it is wrong to exploit kids, but if a law is in place that says you can't touch a lil kid even if they are comming on to you is wrong. there's a difference between consent and forceful behavior. and i'm sure most of the people who do this stuff is in the wrong, but that doesn't mean it should hurt the people who do love each other and aren't preying on the young.
here's how i see it: rape is rape, if it is with someone younger higher consequences are given. thats all there needs to be.

 

[JenniferGentle]

Oh so adults don't have to show self control? Please.

 

[Captain Beard]

I see more socially, religiously, and culturally learned opinions than biological and historical facts in this thread *nods* This is all I have to say.

 

[Super Mahrio]

Except that a 13-year old girl is not biologically ready for reproduction. Therefore she cannot really understand the emotional aspects of sex.

actually thats not true...when a female starts to menstrate, biologically they are ready for reproduction...its scary but true...however depending on the female (lets say age 13), the gestation period and the delivery will or will not be terribly difficult..but its been done...

 

[Dying Freedom]

thanks for backing me up a bit lord foul.

i do agree it is sexual exploitation, but not in all cases, once again you are assuming it is that.

"The age of majority is a social construct, not one derived from natural law." - that is what i'm saying and more than that it is law for your country/state

we aren't talking about raising kids here we (at least i am) are talking about how an age is mostly a #.
as far as the mind developing thing, til 14 your mind is still "developing" but at that same extent it doesn't mean that you can't know whats right and whats wrong. i blame parents who don't know how to raise their children. for a lot of lack of education about sexual preditors. that's what it is about that everyone is so eww about it. if i said that two people really loved each other and such and got together it would shock you. i have examples from some of my cousins. the guy waiting 5 years til she was 18 or something because of the law to fully go out, but they found each other and it was like love at first sight. if the law wasn't there it would be less awkward and less looked down upon.

like i have said, i think it is wrong to exploit kids, but if a law is in place that says you can't touch a lil kid even if they are comming on to you is wrong. there's a difference between consent and forceful behavior. and i'm sure most of the people who do this stuff is in the wrong, but that doesn't mean it should hurt the people who do love each other and aren't preying on the young.
here's how i see it: rape is rape, if it is with someone younger higher consequences are given. thats all there needs to be.

But how does one tell the difference? Because a teenager might just be in love with the concept of love, and not see that there is an abuse thing going on. Teenage mind is very susceptible, and that's why there is a law forbidding this. It's better to be safe than sorry.

And in my opinion if a grown man finds a 13 year old attractive, it's not normal.