new song

[BlueSky]

It can be a nice dynamic when used sparingly.

 

[Lateralus14]

Yep. Or even as a whole album if you're really a genius. But to base an entire band around the technique....lol what kind of dumbass would go for that.

 

[Brave.Archangel]

In 02 Tool brought this Scandinavian band called Meshuggah to the states. Since then Metallica, Deftones, Porcupine Tree, and Tool have all stated their upcoming records were influenced by Meshuggah in some way. That's when their influence really grew. That exact point, and by that point uber downtuned chug had already been popularized for many years, and had spread its way through heavy music. Meshuggah do have their own sound, which bands have tried to emulate. Basically what Korn did for the 7 string Meshuggah are now doing for the 8 string on a much smaller scale. They're just not as prolific as people are trying to make them out to be.

If you still don't want to try to see where I'm coming from I have nothing left to say. It's just sad that this got turned into "omgz you're like saying Korn influenced Katatonia, and Meshuggahz!?! Or because dey more popler dey is more better!?!" Not the point at all people, and it's not rocket science either. The band's heavy metal influences is quite a long list. For example Daniel is a huge Slipknot fan. It's rather pointless to try to break down exactly where the influence came from for this riff because I'm sure it came from all over the place.

Are you a musician? Because if not it would explain your lack of insight into Meshuggah vs. the nu metal scene. I just don't think they tie into any form of Nu Metal at all.

You mentioned Korn and Deftones under the same tag as Tool and Porucpine Tree, when these bands share FEW fans.

Meshuggah should only make sense to people who have knowledge of advance music theory who are able to distinguish Meshuggah from the other bands out there

I'd say with confidence that Meshuggahs influence has been more musically oriented (i.e. time signatures and virtuoso rhythmic arrangements and playing) than the br00tality of their music, therefore rendering their de-tuning less influential as a whole because that has been a trend for a long time in many genres of extreme metal.

 

[BlueSky]

Are you slow?

 

[Brave.Archangel]

Ok so you aren't a musician

 

[BlueSky]

However irrelevant, Deftones, and Tool certainly share many fans. Totally irrelevant, but I happen to play multiple instruments. Been in a few college bands, and not at the beginning level either. It's hilarious you're pulling ta music theoriez card when I went out of my way to paint things in black an white, and it still flew way over your head. The point wasn't to compare the two, but it's quite hilarious that you don't think Meshuggah has a lot in common with Nu metal just because they know how to play polyrhythms. Lets look at the main ingredients shall we? Do they both revolve around downtuned repetitive riffs? Check. Are they both about percussive groove? Check. All these are major elements that make up the band not just polyrhythms, which you act like they invented. It's also funny that you think the Forsaker riff is even as intricate as the majority of Meshuggah riffs. No one is saying it's exactly like a Korn riff either. These types of riffs can be heard all over the place, and have evolved regardless of Meshuggah.

"You just don't understand Meshuggah cuz they is so complex!!!" Give me a freakin break kid. We're done here.

 

[nizzon]

In 02 Tool brought this Scandinavian band called Meshuggah to the states. Since then Metallica, Deftones, Porcupine Tree, and Tool have all stated their upcoming records were influenced by Meshuggah in some way. That's when their influence really grew. That exact point, and by that point uber downtuned chug had already been popularized for many years, and had spread its way through heavy music. Meshuggah do have their own sound, which bands have tried to emulate. Basically what Korn did for the 7 string Meshuggah are now doing for the 8 string on a much smaller scale. They're just not as prolific as people are trying to make them out to be.

If you still don't want to try to see where I'm coming from I have nothing left to say. It's just sad that this got turned into "omgz you're like saying Korn influenced Katatonia, and Meshuggahz!?! Or because dey more popler dey is more better!?!" Not the point at all people, and it's not rocket science either. The band's heavy metal influences is quite a long list. For example Daniel is a huge Slipknot fan. It's rather pointless to try to break down exactly where the influence came from for this riff because I'm sure it came from all over the place.

Meshuggah is so much more than downtuned guitars, seems like thats the only thing you are focusing on.

To be honest, I have hardly listened to Korn since the 90s when they released ST (see, i learn teh lingo mofo! ) and I have only heard like 10 of their songs since then. But the only thing I hear in Forsaker that has something in common with Korn is the downtuning, thats not why some of us associate this riff with Meshuggah, it has more to do with the rythm and feeling of the riff.

Im trying to understand where you are coming from with this but im having a hard time seeing it. I can agree that maybe Meshuggah gets too much cred in the music biz, but thats another discussion imo.
By the looks of things you were the one who couldnt stand the fact that most of us hear more Meshuggah than Korn in this riff.

 

[nymphx]

haha.. i can't believe what you're all saying 'bout meshuggah. to me they sound difficult to follow and a slight messy.. but ye, that makes it interesting!
also, the more you listen to 'em the more you understand.
maybe you just gotta learn to listen to it :

 

[BlueSky]

Please for the love of jebus reread the convo. Wankerness brought up how extremely detuned it was. I simply explained that Korn has been chugging along that low for while. Ever since I’ve been reiterating how bands like Korn had a bigger INFLUENCE on downtuned chug riffs. In Forsaker the riffs are obviously have a lot tighter picking. Never saying it was closer to one or the other. Korn influenced bands like Slipknot who influenced In Flames when they put out Reroute to Remain a band that heavily influenced this metalcore movement. I know people are going to flip out because they can't handle what I'm about to say, but the riff is the exact type of riff these metalcore bands rely on, bands like Killswitch Engaged. The only difference is Katatonia have more to their sound. It find it bothersome that somehow Meshuggah was mentioned since these type of riffs are all over the place these days, and not strictly because of Meshuggah. The little intro is understandable to make the connection, but other than that you'd have to be totally oblivious to the state of music if Meshuggah automatically popped into your mind.

"Circle of Manias" starts app. (7:43) now this is no doubt Meshuggah influenced. PT are quite possibly my favorite band. I like what they did with it, and have no problem with admitting it.

 

[nizzon]

I guess i missed why you brought up Korn then.
Yes they are used by lots of bands. The reason Meshuggah pops into peoples heads is because they take it to the extremes.

 

[BlueSky]

I think it's because most can't think of a better example, which there are a plenty. Anyhow good chatin' friend. I'm spent.

 

[nizzon]

Maybe so.

Now im gonna go back to grumbling over my missed anathema-gig.

 

[Brave.Archangel]

However irrelevant, Deftones, and Tool certainly share many fans. Totally irrelevant, but I happen to play multiple instruments. Been in a few college bands, and not at the beginning level either. It's hilarious you're pulling ta music theoriez card when I went out of my way to paint things in black an white, and it still flew way over your head. The point wasn't to compare the two, but it's quite hilarious that you don't think Meshuggah has a lot in common with Nu metal just because they know how to play polyrhythms. Lets look at the main ingredients shall we? Do they both revolve around downtuned repetitive riffs? Check. Are they both about percussive groove? Check. All these are major elements that make up the band not just polyrhythms, which you act like they invented. It's also funny that you think the Forsaker riff is even as intricate as the majority of Meshuggah riffs. No one is saying it's exactly like a Korn riff either. These types of riffs can be heard all over the place, and have evolved regardless of Meshuggah.

"You just don't understand Meshuggah cuz they is so complex!!!" Give me a freakin break kid. We're done here.

The best thing you can do to disprove my point is to re-type it as a 4th grader would. Good job, man.

And as for " It's also funny that you think the Forsaker riff is even as intricate as the majority of Meshuggah riffs.", that's the exact opposite of what I was trying to say. I argued they have LITTLE in common.

You're argument that Meshuggah has similarities to Nu-Metal is based off of music ingredients that many types of music share. Down tuned riffs and "percussive groves"? Doesn't get more vague and un-descriptive as that. While those elements are used in Nu-Metal, bands that tune their guitars down and use "percussive groves" could have musical similarities to Nu-Metal?
Sure! That could be the case if you think in genres and simple musical ingredients.

I don't think in terms of genre or use of guitar tunings. As far as "percussive groves", imo ANY rock band could contain that.
Therefore, when I made the claim that Meshuggah has nothing to do with Nu-Metal, I was not exclusively thinking about their use of polyrhythms. Although that would conveniently give your condescension and derogatory claims more validity.

I think Meshuggah have nothing to do with Nu-Metal because they don't sound anything close to Nu-Metal I've heard.

Except their use of down-tuned guitars and "percussive groves". lol

 

[BlueSky]

You're now swerving off into a "what do Meshuggah have in common with Nu metal" debate? You're the one who brought it up for some reason. However the fact is they do have quite a bit in common. Compared to other metal sub genres nu metal focuses on percussion instead of the typical guitar driven metal bands. The guitars rely on lower register tunings, and use them as more as a percussive instrument. They use rap vocals in nu metal because it's of a more percussive nature. Similarly the Meshuggah vocalist sees himself as another percussion instrument. These are some major traits of nu metal my friend, and you trying to argue other wise only makes you look silly. You've got the typical "I is so smart for listening to Meshuggah, they is so above other genres" mentality. Again why you turned it into this debate I have no clue.

And as for " It's also funny that you think the Forsaker riff is even as intricate as the majority of Meshuggah riffs.", that's the exact opposite of what I was trying to say. I argued they have LITTLE in common.

Really? Because that's what I've been saying this entire time genius. Are you reading the conversation at all? I don't know much clearer I can spell it out for you.

 

[season1234]

You're now swerving off into a "what do Meshuggah have in common with Nu metal" debate? You're the one who brought it up for some reason. However the fact is they do have quite a bit in common. Compared to other metal sub genres nu metal focuses on percussion instead of the typical guitar driven metal bands. The guitars rely on lower register tunings, and use them as more as a percussive instrument. They use rap vocals in nu metal because it's of a more percussive nature. Similarly the Meshuggah vocalist sees himself as another percussion instrument. These are some major traits of nu metal my friend, and you trying to argue other wise only makes you look silly. You've got the typical "I is so smart for listening to Meshuggah, they is so above other genres" mentality. Again why you turned it into this debate I have no clue.



Really? Because that's what I've been saying this entire time genius. Are you reading the conversation at all? I don't know much clearer I can spell it out for you.

It is certainly not a FACT that Meshuggah have a lot in common with nu-metal, it is just your opinion. I see your point in the statement above, but by simply listening to any given Meshuggah song versus any given Korn or Deftones song, I could hardly lump Meshuggah into the nu-metal category. Just my opinion.

 

[Brave.Archangel]

You're now swerving off into a "what do Meshuggah have in common with Nu metal" debate? You're the one who brought it up for some reason. However the fact is they do have quite a bit in common. Compared to other metal sub genres nu metal focuses on percussion instead of the typical guitar driven metal bands. The guitars rely on lower register tunings, and use them as more as a percussive instrument. They use rap vocals in nu metal because it's of a more percussive nature. Similarly the Meshuggah vocalist sees himself as another percussion instrument. These are some major traits of nu metal my friend, and you trying to argue other wise only makes you look silly. You've got the typical "I is so smart for listening to Meshuggah, they is so above other genres" mentality. Again why you turned it into this debate I have no clue.



Really? Because that's what I've been saying this entire time genius. Are you reading the conversation at all? I don't know much clearer I can spell it out for you.

Boy, you're a one trick pony when it comes to expressing your elitism. I'm not the only one to question your comparison and claims about Meshuggah relating to Nu-Metal. The fact remains, buddy, that your opinions are subjective. You've hit on a few commonalities, but really your objective evidence is completely arbitrary. Your use of the word percussive is as vague as saying both the genres have "rhythm" or "grove".

Since your stubborn, "I must be right or else I won't be able to sleep tonight" attitude, combined with juvenile, derogatory jokes (i.e. "I is so smart for listening to Meshuggah, they is so above other genres) demonstrate the need to try to somehow disprove my subjective opinion, I will pull up some obvious facts that favor my argument.

Meshuggah started out THRASH with influences drawing from early metallica, testament and other such bands. Their heavy, chug based "PERCUSSIVE" elements didn't really evolve until late in their career. At that point, in multiple interviews, they claimed to be searching more for their unique sound rather than listening to other bands for influence, hence their completely unique sound.

Put on any Meshuggah album, and then put on a Deftones or Korn album, and I won't hear similarities other than the use of the instruments they play. The commercialized, angst driven hip-hop influenced aggression that Nu-Metal delivers does not compare to the droning, brutal, incoherence of Meshuggah's sound.
This is my opinion. I realize many people could hear a Deftones record and think it alike to Meshuggah, but I think many would agree those would be people NOT familiar with esoteric and eclectic genres of extreme metal, and the subtle, yet unequivocal differences in sound, delivery, emotion, production, and sound-scape.

So go ahead. Bash me again by attempting to quote me in such a way where I sound uneducated and grammatically incompetent. That'll show me and boy will it fortify your position as superior!

 

[BlueSky]

Boy, you're a one trick pony when it comes to expressing your elitism. I'm not the only one to question your comparison and claims about Meshuggah relating to Nu-Metal. The fact remains, buddy, that your opinions are subjective. You've hit on a few commonalities, but really your objective evidence is completely arbitrary. Your use of the word percussive is as vague as saying both the genres have "rhythm" or "grove".

combined with juvenile, derogatory jokes (i.e. "I is so smart for listening to Meshuggah, they is so above other genres) demonstrate the need to try to somehow disprove my subjective opinion, I will pull up some obvious facts that favor my argument.


So go ahead. Bash me again by attempting to quote me in such a way where I sound uneducated and grammatically incompetent. That'll show me and boy will it fortify your position as superior!

This is just the case of the pot calling the kettle black.

"Meshuggah should only make sense to people who have knowledge of advance music theory who are able to distinguish Meshuggah from the other bands out there"

I'm not the only one to question your comparison and claims about Meshuggah relating to Nu-Metal.

This is the very last time I'm going to say this, I was never the one to START claiming that Meshuggah relate to nu metal. You were the one who brought it up for some reason(within this page of the thread.) Qth was confused too until I told him to go back, and reread the convo. I really don't know what else I can say to you. Keep arguing about something that was never the intent of the conversation. I'm done.

Holy hell.

 

[Brave.Archangel]

It is possible that our arguments were based off misinterpretation of words out of context.

 

[moouers]

It is possible that our arguments were based off misinterpretation of words out of context.

That's generally how most internet forum arguments go.

 

[Jester-Race]

who cares stop this stupid ass korn vs. meshuggah debate, it's honestly the worst debate I've ever read on the entire internet.


talk about how amazing the new song is, k?