New Wintersun coverart....

[Omni]

Yeah, I definitely didn't say that, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I can only assume that you're grasping at straws.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I know how to look at art, I'm an art major and I have done studies in visual art. I find the new Wintersun art to be tacky and too focused on beating you over the head with the colors and design, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for whatever reason. Happy? If it makes you feel any better, I explained on one of the previous pages that I think the first album has even more atrocious art.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I know how to look at art, I'm an art major and I have done studies in visual art. I find the new Wintersun art to be tacky and too focused on beating you over the head with the colors and design, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for whatever reason. Happy? If it makes you feel any better, I explained on one of the previous pages that I think the first album has even more atrocious art.

Yeah, my initial post wasn't directed at any specific poster, and as I said I have my qualms with it too. There are just a lot of people who basically said "it's flowery and happy, therefore gay" which I think is ridiculous. It's not even intended to be happy and if people seriously look at a little pink without looking at the piece in context and think "happy" then yes, they need to learn2art...

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Yeah, I definitely didn't say that, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. I can only assume that you're grasping at straws.

You said "nah it sucks" which is basically like saying "bzzt your opinion is wrong and I am right." At least that's what the "nah" emphasizes. Whereas I basically said that people need to open their minds a bit instead of just slagging something because it's not a tired metal cliche (well, the concept anyway. The execution is another story...). There's a big difference between those two statements. On one hand, I am saying that people need to look at art in a more open-minded light and on the other you just say "nah that artwork sucks." If you seriously can't see the difference between those, something is wrong.

 

[Omni]

So basically, you're saying that even though art is subjective, anyone who disagrees with your opinion that it's good, which is what I was disagreeing with, is wrong and needs to be more open-minded. I didn't disagree that art is subjective, so this must be what you mean since you said that my statement is incorrect.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

So basically, you're saying that even though art is subjective, anyone who disagrees with your opinion that it's good, which is what I was disagreeing with, is wrong and needs to be more open-minded. I didn't disagree that art is subjective, so this must be what you mean since you said that my statement is incorrect.

Ironic, after 2 or so posts of you claiming that I missed your point...

Whether it's good or not isn't up for discussion since in reality, "good" and "bad" doesn't really exist when discussing art. What matters, at least to me, is how people come to that conclusion. If it's because one is so ignorant and oblivious that he or she requires being force fed the same metal cliches and everything that deviates from that is "gay" simply because it's not said cliche, yes, I believe you are flat out wrong. It means that you (not you, you... generally speaking here...) have not exposed yourself to what's out there and shut yourself out to any other kind of art. It's kind of like shunning off entire musical genres because they are not metal. Stupid. You're not wrong for disliking the cover, but you're wrong for responding to my post with "nah," as if you are a higher authority and that I must listen to your opinion. Conversely, I merely said that people should expose themselves to more art (as childish as "learn2art" is, it's definitely more profound than you think) and not tired cliches if they're going to bitch about it being gay due to the pinkness. Further, the people who claim that the piece is happy also need to learn2art because they completely missed the context of what's going on here. There's nothing happy about this piece, and the intention of it wasn't to be happy either (at least, if you read Jari's interview where he described the cover and its symbolism). THAT is no more opinion than one who stands in a burning building but says "the building's not on fire, that's my opinion."

 

[Omni]

Yes, thanks for confirming that you missed my point.

Saying "nah" (or "no" for that matter) doesn't mean (or even remotely imply) that I'm a higher authority than you, or that you are obligated to listen to me. It simply means that I don't agree with your opinion that it's good. I'm pretty sure that anyone aside from you would find that painfully obvious.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Whether it's good or not isn't up for discussion since in reality, "good" and "bad" doesn't really exist when discussing art.

Thanks Captain Artistically Obvious, this was tough for me to figure out.

What matters, at least to me, is how people come to that conclusion. If it's because one is so ignorant and oblivious that he or she requires being force fed the same metal cliches and everything that deviates from that is "gay" simply because it's not said cliche, yes, I believe you are flat out wrong.

I can't agree with your premise because it's based on a faulty conclusion you seem to have randomly drawn. Essentially you're saying that anyone calling it gay has necessarily been "force fed the same metal cliches", which can easily be proven untrue by someone who hasn't been exposed/indoctrinated to said cliches coming in and saying "no bro it looks pretty homo". Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make it wrong. I have every right to call the art "gay" (without the obvious sexual implications). Granted, it's not a very sound criticism, but it can still be someone's opinion, and a legitimate one in certain cases. You, however, don't have the right to draw essentially random conclusions about people and their opinions.

Further, the people who claim that the piece is happy also need to learn2art because they completely missed the context of what's going on here. There's nothing happy about this piece, and the intention of it wasn't to be happy either (at least, if you read Jari's interview where he described the cover and its symbolism).

I'm going to come through your modem and kill you if you say "learn2art" again, you're not helping your gravitas with that dumb shit. Anyway, just because an artist says their art means something doesn't mean anyone expressing contrary opinions is wrong and doesn't deserve to express their opinion. Artists are not the be all end all of their own artistic world, to be honest. If I make a piece and say it is sad, and explain why it is sad, and come to the conclusion logically, and someone says "well it looks happy to me", they're not wrong; they just see it differently. I don't think you understand subjectivity very well.

THAT is no more opinion than one who stands in a burning building but says "the building's not on fire, that's my opinion."

...please, learn about art/subjectivity.

Regardless, I'm locking this. There's really nothing more to be said, it wasn't even strictly metal discussion in the first place. I can't have an argument with someone who blatantly misunderstands such basic tenets of thinking as objective/subjective and how art is criticized and judged. I don't see this going anywhere interesting anyway.