NFL 2014
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Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
I ballparked it based off my top of the head guesstimate of the avg Patriot regular season wins since 2001, and turns out I was right. Cassell went 11-5 with the Patriots, and then absolutely flopped elsewhere. We have no idea how he would have performed in the playoffs because that was the weird year they didn't get in with a 11-5 record. Brady's regular season avg? 12.23 wins (I didn't delve into the seasons to see if there was a game missed otherwise here and there).
The season(s) Brady put up gaudy stats coincided with the presence of Moss. Does the name Culpepper ring a bell?
Brady is obviously above the Andy Dalton Line, but so are a lot of other QBs.
The season(s) Brady put up gaudy stats coincided with the presence of Moss. Does the name Culpepper ring a bell?
Brady is obviously above the Andy Dalton Line, but so are a lot of other QBs.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
I could go at this from a different angle: If Brady retired this offseason, is it that crazy to think New England could still win 10-11 games with Garopolopolopolopolopo under center?
rms
Active Member
Your argument sucks man. Regular season wins mean nothing, if Brady went 8-8 every year and made it to the playoffs it wouldn't change my perception about him at all. He threw the ball 50 times against the Seahawks and won. I can't believe you're going to argue he's a mold QB in which anyone could do it.
If that's true, why keep him? Avg QB's are everywhere and could easily give salary relief to another position that the Pats desperately need. Why trade Mallett? When he could have been the successor?
If that's true, why keep him? Avg QB's are everywhere and could easily give salary relief to another position that the Pats desperately need. Why trade Mallett? When he could have been the successor?
Brady was clearly better than Mallett. That wasn't the point. Brady is also 11th by salary, not terribly expensive.
So how about Warren Sapp? Trrrbl Trrbl.
So how about Warren Sapp? Trrrbl Trrbl.
rms
Active Member
Are you just bored? Is this what this is? He's restructured his contract twice in the last season/2 seasons and all those years between 04-13 the Pats could have cut him for someone else like who knows, Kyle Orton, and done just as well right? I can't believe you're going to try and take down the best QB of the 2000s
Yes I know he has restructured. Why didn't he just make the Pats pay him Aaron Rodgers money if he is the best QB of the 2000s? Orton is below the Dalton line.
I provided historical context/example and asked a simple question about a future that is going to happen at some point, even if not this year. Neither were addressed and instead ridiculous things were said like "he's the best QB of the 2000s" who, if not for a dumb play call, would be getting ripped for a red zone INT and throwing straight to a linebacker during the Super Bowl.
rms
Active Member
Are you suggesting that Brady didn't get paid Rodgers money because Aaron is that much better?
I don't know why you are bringing up your Dalton line, you just suggested that the Pats could win 11 games with a rookie from EIU. That point isn't coherent, there's a huge gap between Garap and Dalton
Who is the best QB of the 21st century? I don't even think it's a debate anymore.
Patriots are going to suck just like most teams will suck when a HOF QB retires. Maybe they'll get lucky and draft or trade for someone, or just become the Seahawks and throw the ball 15 times a game, but there's no logical way to think that the Pats will be somehow 2 losses worse than they are now.
Wouldn't be getting ripped for anything. He had to throw the ball against one of if not the best D in the league and that's what happens when you do that. Pundits would say he choked on an INT but real fans know that's what happens when you play against the best
I don't know why you are bringing up your Dalton line, you just suggested that the Pats could win 11 games with a rookie from EIU. That point isn't coherent, there's a huge gap between Garap and Dalton
Terrible observation without any merit in a statistical discussion.
W's.
Who is the best QB of the 21st century? I don't even think it's a debate anymore.
Patriots are going to suck just like most teams will suck when a HOF QB retires. Maybe they'll get lucky and draft or trade for someone, or just become the Seahawks and throw the ball 15 times a game, but there's no logical way to think that the Pats will be somehow 2 losses worse than they are now.
Wouldn't be getting ripped for anything. He had to throw the ball against one of if not the best D in the league and that's what happens when you do that. Pundits would say he choked on an INT but real fans know that's what happens when you play against the best
I don't know how much better Aaron is, but he must be better. So you are saying with Revis, Collins, and Wilfork on one side, Blount and Gronk on the other, and Belichick on the sidelines, lopolopolopolopo can't match Cassel? In other words, yes I do think Jimmy can get 10-11 wins.
Unlike some(most) people, I don't consider rings the be-all-end-all of player discussions. Nor longevity. Marino has zero rings. Gale Sayers only played 68 games. Etc.
You think if Brady retired right now, the Pats suck next year? Now who's insane?
But those throws were bad throws. It's not like there was some superhuman stuff going on.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
Tom Brady was the only QB to pass for more than 300 yards and more than 3 touchdowns against the Seahawks this season.
It's been a while peops.
Now I know why I don't come around here as often...stupid shit Nou-moron! Anyway, nice to see some haters giving due props. Unbelievable game... we we're thankfully treated to an instant classic. What Brady orchestrated in the 4th qtr against that legion of doom, simply legendary.
I get the hate for the Pats, but man those cocky punk fuck seahawks and their stupid antics are in a class by themselves.
Now I know why I don't come around here as often...stupid shit Nou-moron! Anyway, nice to see some haters giving due props. Unbelievable game... we we're thankfully treated to an instant classic. What Brady orchestrated in the 4th qtr against that legion of doom, simply legendary.
I get the hate for the Pats, but man those cocky punk fuck seahawks and their stupid antics are in a class by themselves.
"Stupid shit" that no one has any argument against. Gtfo.
I turned it off right after the pick, so I didn't see the uncalled for punches and shit (classless and ironic given Carroll's hippydippyness at times), but you can't start bashing the Seahawks for cockiness as a Pats fan. Hello Gronk, Revis, and Belichick.
I turned it off right after the pick, so I didn't see the uncalled for punches and shit (classless and ironic given Carroll's hippydippyness at times), but you can't start bashing the Seahawks for cockiness as a Pats fan. Hello Gronk, Revis, and Belichick.
rms
Active Member
Doesn't Joe Flacco make more than any QB right now? This is a terrible argument. It's weird you can spew this philosophy and economics mumbo jumbo all day in the other thread but then this is how your sports brain works.
Blount? The guy they picked up in like Wk16? Revis is pretty much assumed to leave because of his pay check, but maybe he'll stay like Brady because winning is funner than being rich(er). Cassel is definitely better than EIU kid, are you friggin serious right now? Garap played like what 10 snaps?! Cassel is at the very worst a league average QB
Longevity is a big deal. Consistency. Showing up in the big games. Can't deny it. Brady has 209 games under his belt, and another 29 in the playoffs. Been to it more than any other QB, ever, and won as much as Montana and Bradshaw I believe. That's easily definable as top of the 21st century.
You think Edelman becomes a top receiver with Garap throwing the ball? Vereen and Ridley with all that open space if Garap is back there? LaFell making a come back and all the years with old slower receivers? I'd be surprised if they went 8-8
Everyone makes mistakes. No one is perfect so this is a silly point
Based on salary Flacco was 4th for 2014 at 20.1 mil. Flacco is streaky like Eli. A better argument against $ values is Cutler at 18.1. However, that's pisspoor decision making by a Bears organization that has amade a lot of questionable decisions. The Patriots organization, including Belichick, has demonstrated a keen understanding of value.
On what grounds can you make the statement that Cassel is definitely better than Jimmy G? NFL snaps? That would make a lot of shitty QBs look good. Cassel will prob be cut by the Vikes this offseason based on his cap hit and Bridgewater's development. Odds he lands another starting gig are low.
So much of longevity depends on luck, so not really. Bradshaw rode his teams, so that's why I wouldn't mind linking those two. But Montana was simply brilliant. Dominating when possible, sealing the deal when it wasn't.
You're totally missing the point, and lol at LaFell "making a comeback". Edelman is a "jackknife". With the Patriots short passing game, yes, most QBs can make 5-7 yard passes. Including Jimmy G. Really the only deep throws go to Gronk, and the dude is a massive target. I love the "everyone makes mistakes.....THAT DUDE IS A CHOKER" double standard all over the place.
rms
Active Member
There is no better argument. Brady is the best QB in the league, right now, and doesn't even get paid NEAR the top. It's a moot and terrible point, no reason to be brought up again.
What obnoxious method could you use to say that Grap is better than any QB in the league? Are you an EIU fan or something? The hell is going on here. He is nothing, he has nothing to his name. Cassel was a starter for a few years and maybe lost his touch, no idea don't watch the Vikings, but he's not going to get cut and instead keep Ponder to backup Bridgewater. That'd be a terrible decision
This is a terrible statement to make without any proof. Brady hasn't had an offensive weapon since Moss and Gronk has been injured what, 3 out of his 5 years? Hernandez for 2.5? No RB since Dillon? I mean come on.
Aren't you the same age as me? How can you talk of QB's when you were 8 years old?
Can't deny it at all. LaFell became Brady's favorite target after like WK5, Edelman was a PR before Welker left. So Brady isn't good because his game plan is too good?
I don't know what choker argument you're talking about because it doesn't apply to me. I know your getting mad at the average ESPN fan, but get a grip on your audience.
The only grounds you have for this claim is rings, and that's a team achievement. That same argument says Marino is worse than Jimmy G, because lopolopo has a ring.
Logic/reading comprehension fail. Then it got worse. No Jimmy isn't the best QB in the league. He doesn't need to be. That's the point. Russell Wilson is 10-1 (now) vs SUper Bowl Winning QBs, yet iirc did not out-perform any of those QBs he beat. Why? The team. The team. The team.
And Dillon was a little washed up. It's not about the player, it's about the system. Otherwise you don't get a guy to rush for 200 yds and then not get on the field again (Grey). The Pats treat all their players as cogs. Brady is no exception. If he demanded to get paid Rodgers money+ I guarantee you he would have been gone. It's Belichick's team, not Brady's.
So Welker was better than Edelman? What's your point? it's not Brady's plan. It's Belichick's plan. What's so hard about this? I think Belichick is possibly the greatest tactician/strategist the NFL has ever scene, but simultaneously manages to be a schmuck about it. Brady is a dork and above average QB but likeable guy. But Brady is not TGOAT. Not even in the top 10. On the otherhand, if you had to declare a top coach/QB combo, it would have to be Belichick/Brady, but that would be 80% on Belichick.
I can bash all I want. Players celebrating a td like an idiot and causing their team 15 yds on ensuing kickoff, Sherman on the sidelines mugging in the camera calling out Revis after Seattle scored a td, then the shit at the end of game. Sorry Pats don't pull that shit and are far more disciplined as we saw. So you can gtfo as other people are clearly defusing your spew.
rms
Active Member
There are basically a number of stats that say Tom is the best. There aren't any that say he's average or just near the made up Dalton line. You have no evidence other than a Matt Cassel year. Like saying Flynn was a legit QB because he came in for Rodgers.
I think you misread, I said he's not better than ANY QB, not the best in the league. Your point is very easy to understand, it's just a bad point with no evidence to support it.
You must define outperform before you make this claim. Wilson was the leading passer in both games before the Pats, so I would say that's "outperforming" the other QBs, especially if you're saying that WIlson is average.
The team is an overrated aspect past the OL. QB's run the show once you've established a respectable OL, and the Pats have showed that for over a decade now.
You're crazy if you think Kraft would let Brady go
I'd say so. He makes average players amazing. Welker was a good receiver but he was great with Brady chucking the ball. Peyton does the same, and i'm sure you'll see some Broncos targets go nowhere once hes gone.
Without a doubt Belichick appears to be a genius, I say appear because I don't know what extent he goes to, but a tactician uses his assets properly. He knows he has a top3 QB, MINIMUM, in his backfield so that changes everything. I never said greatest of all time. I don't know who you're arguing against. Top10 you are talking out of your ass since you weren't even alive for it, so don't make a fool of yourself.
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