In Utero is a great cd. I remembered really hating it when I first heard it (I expected Nevermind Part 2). But I kept hearing it played at my friend's house who had cancer at the time (when I would visit him) and it just clicked.
It wasn't one of my favorite albums and still isn't.. the Unplugged album is my favorite... but there are songs I like on the album... Rape Me being my favorite... i also like Heart Shaped Box... you could tell from that album that Kurt was experimenting and going away from the more commercial producing sound of Nevermind... had he lived he would of experimented more... Nirvana were so popular by then the record labels could not just deny Kurt's requests for this or that...
If you aren't saying they're safe... I apologize.
As for Nirvana, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I just really had a problem with saying Nirvana was more daring than AiC. Not saying it's the other way around either, they both just did their own thing and carved their own niche in the grunge movement. And I attribute AiC's success to Nirvana... no Smells Like Teen Spirit and America wouldn't have given a rat's red ass about Man in the Box. Nirvana and the grunge movement took AiC from a glam band to a grunge/metal band.
Yah, I consider AIC pretty safe... sure they were dark but their songs were commercially appealing imo... not all safe but somewhat safe... apology accepted... at least your polite in other's opinions..
As for Nirvana I would say they became more daring in the Utero album... and Kurt even says he became more experimental/daring in interviews due to their popularity and power by then that the labels can't just say no to him... also I always thought Bleach was a daring album as well.. And you are correct, Nirvana did bring AIC and the other bands into the spotlight as well as the Seattle scene... as for AIC being a glam band before Grunge.. i don't know about that and will say I'm ignorant about that if it's true.
I'm pretty sure that most people know "Anarchy in the UK" and "God Save the Queen" by The Sex Pistols, especially people from the UK.
Razor don't get that... he thinks only one group of people (punk fans in this example) are the ones who listen to a particular genre and not people outside the genre... If you told him that Motley Crue, Megadeth etc. did covers of Sex Pistols songs I would bet he would be surprised such bands listened to the Pistols...
Good Explanation. One thing I don't agree with is "they have a unique sound that wasn't always safe like AIC" What's safe? Jerry Cantrell is a tremendous guitarist. Layne was way better of a vocalist than Cobain. AIC were edgy and tight, much better musicians as a whole than Nirvana. But hey, that's just my opinion and my understanding of Nirvana. AIC composed a blues/rock/metal hybrid. I never thought of them as a "grunge" band. AIC appealed to me more musically. Remember, It's alright to disagree, it's only about our subjective musical opinions.Peace,man.
Safe was Nirvana's Nevermind album compared to Bleach and In Utero... very commercially appealing... i always considered most of AIC's albums as safe as well.. dark and such but made for radio... As for better musicians then Nirvana... i never consider that at all.. I would say they were the same as musicians but im biased towards Nirvana... I would say Dave Grohl is much better drummer though.. as for Jerry Cantrell, I think he's overrated. He's a good guitarist no doubt but not great or tremendous. Just adequate and effective for their songs. Sea of Sorrow and such were very grunge imo. Plus Grunge imo didn't have any distinct sound. Pearl Jam was very soft compared to Nirvana and AIC for example.
And I liked your last statement.. a true gentleman...
Ever heard of Savatage from Florida... first recorded in '83... Fates Warning from Connecticut... first recorded in '84... how about Queensryche... from none other than Bellevue Washington... first recorded in '83, but then none of these bands were "dark"... yarite. Then there was the thrash bands, but theres no need to go there.
Fates and Savatage were not influential except in the underground metal scene so that argument is mute... and Queensryche did not become influential and such till they changed their sound and became more commercially appealing.
But I suppose you are talking about popular radio music and yes commercial metal was the popular heavy music of the air waves... not "glam metal" because few of the nationally popular commercial bands were glam.
I wouldn't call commercial metal "heavy" then or now... as for the nationally popular commercial bands not being "glam metal" or "Glam hardrock" (I never considered these bands metal to begin with)... tell me which ones of these weren't: Motley Crue, Ratt, Warrant, White Lion, Poison, LA Guns, Cinderella etc.
As for worldly popularity various grunge bands did it their own way and it all happened at the same time in '91. But for recording AiC recorded Facelift containing Man in the Box in late '89 - early '90, whereas Nirvana recorded Nevermind, containing Smells like teen spirt in late spring of '91, so Im not really seeing how Nirvana made AiC anything other than a much better band. Then lets see... Sound Garden recorded Badmotorfinger in early spring of '91, Pearl Jams Ten in early spring of '91, Im just not seeing Nirvana opening doors here, it was one big movement that happened all at once yet there are differences in the music of the bands.
It doesn't matter when their breakthrough albums came out. These bands all heard each other way before that in the clubs and bars of Seattle. Their unique sounds influenced each other but especially Nirvana who made splashes with Bleach in Seattle. Hope you get it now.
As for whos more user friendly music, Nirvanas singles charted higher than AiC's so that brings much into question. One bands songs are better than anothers ? thats personal taste. I think Nirvanas sing along melodies were more user friendly and commercially oriented.
This about the only thing I agree with you except for the In Utero and Bleach albums.
Just for the fact that you fixate on the term "glam" leaves your knowledge on the history of music in question to me. Calling all the music of the 80's glam is a relatively new trend used by those that were not around at the time.
Your the only one with the idea that everything from the 80's is called Glam. I have never heard anyone call all music from the 80's Glam. I wonder where you get this idea.
Regardless of your being a huge fan of AiC or not, doesnt change the fact that they recorded Facelift before any of the other bands recorded their breakthrough albums. Also doesnt change the fact that they were just as much part of the Seattle music scene as the others. You've gone from Nirvana being responsible for them to now just simply grunge being responsible for them.
Again, doesn't matter when their album was recorded or released. FaceLift was not considered a breakthrough album till Nirvana brought AIC and the Grunge movement into the spotlight. FaceLift wasn't even in the radar. And btw Bleach was released before Facelift as is Soundgarden and other bands' releases if that matters.
I just never went for any of that. Like someone saying without Hendrix there would have been no Page, no EVH, no SRV or whatever other example (and I've heard many) someone wants to make up. As if to say everyone else would have stood around like dummys not knowing what to do with their instruments and lacking any form of origonality.
You can't say Hendrix didn't hugely influence SRV. As for the others (Page and EVH)i don't think he influenced them as much if at all. Also you forget the fact that no one is totally original. Everyone was influenced by someone and took that influence to make a style of their own.
I haven't explored the 80's metal/music scene much except for Thrash, so forgive my ignorance there.
You have a point, and I was thinking about this argument earlier... They recorded their demo for We Die Young, their first single, before even Bleach by Nirvana. So... yeah. I think your point is very valid.
His point has flaws like i pointed out. And demo's don't really count because so few are released. So his point is not very valid as me and others have pointed out.
There was all kinds of popular music during the 80's prior to grunge or alternative music gaining in popularity. Much of what I listened to was alternative to popular music throughout my whole life which amused me about the then new term of "alternative". The problem with people grabing on to that glam term is they put rockers and everyone else into glam/hair metal. VanHalen was far from glam, AC/DC was far from glam, ZZ Top was far from glam. Sure the fasion was flashy but that stems from the 70's and even late 60's. Glam is wearing makeup and I believe rooted in bands like the New York Dolls and maybe David Bowie... not that I ever heard him called "glam". IMO its a good term to loose and forget about.
You don't know what alternative music much less what glam is as others have pointed out. Glam and Alternative also are not "new" terms. Glam was used in the 70's and Alternative in the early 90's. Plus VH, AC/DC and ZZ Top were not ever described as Glam in this lifetime or the next. I don't know where you get this delusion from.
Bleach is an awesome album.
It's a ok album... I like About a Girl best...
I'm not confusing anything, Im not the one confused and using a bunch of new terms to describe the song of rock.
