Non-gay bro thread a.k.a. Random offtopic stuff.

[mindd]

Did you buy the PC adapter for the PSVR2 too? I'm jealous of the PSVR2 deals in UK and US last week, no 200$ offs in Europe, no good deals at all. I would've bought it but alas

 

[The Grayfox]

I built my current PC in 2022. Did you build yours or buy it? A few years ago, GPUs were so fucking expensive that I almost didn't bother building. Luckily I found what I was looking for online and it was expensive but it was bundled with a 2TB SSD. So it was like 800, but at the time, a GTX 3070ti was going for that and more on it's own on eBay and other retailers. I think I spent just under 3k on my setup, which also included new monitors, keyboard, mouse, speakers, stuff like that. It was probably closer to 22-2300 in 2022 on my actual PC, which is:

GTX 3070ti
ASUS board - z490, which is also a gaming one
32 GB RAM
i9 10 core

Mine is liquid cooled, which is the first time I've ever gone that route. No complaints though because I can put this thing through hell (i.e. any modern game on ultra settings, and it stays nice and cool -- and quiet as a mouse to boot due to a nice big tower and lots of quiet fans).

I don't really do any VR, though I have been tossing around the idea of getting a Quest 3 because I have a friend who really wants to play horror VR stuff like Phasmophobia as a group. Plus I love escape rooms and shit like that and I know there's some VR stuff that fits that bill. I probably will get one eventually. As my buddy said to me, "well, you could just buy one and even if you don't enjoy VR gaming, there's always VR porn..."

 

[DE4life]

Did you buy the PC adapter for the PSVR2 too? I'm jealous of the PSVR2 deals in UK and US last week, no 200$ offs in Europe, no good deals at all. I would've bought it but alas

Yeah, I did indeed. Originally I ordered the adapter from Amazon Germany as it was out of stock all across the UK, but then it became available on PS Direct UK, so I cancelled the Amazon Germany order and got it from PS UK instead. My laptop actually has an RTX 2070 mobile, and I read that the RTX 2070 cards are capable of VirtualLink - which would mean I could actually plug the PSVR2 directly into the USB C slot as opposed to using the adapter. It also has a Mini-DP port and IF that port is DP 1.4 compatible I could also, theoretically, use this with the PC adapter. However I believe I'd need an additional Mini-DP to DP adapter/cable.

My guess, however, is that the laptop/mobile variant won't have the VirtualLink option, and the mini-DP port may well just be 1.2. I did ask the manufacturer but even they weren't sure, so I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the UK on the 23rd to find out. To be honest though, 2070 mobile on my laptop would give questionable results even if it did work, and I'd be really worried about overheating. Laptop chassis' never do well with this kind of thing and my laptop is 5 years old now. I pretty much always use my old PC to do VR, as even though the GTX 1070 is a little bit inferior to the RTX 2070 mobile, the lack of thermal throttling makes for a smoother overall experience. Also, honestly, the GTX 1070 has done a really good job over the past 7 years or so. I might not be able to play games at highest settings, but at medium settings it's still pretty damn solid. I was able to play Half-Life Alyx and GTA V VR perfectly well, anyway.

It sucks that Europe didn't get the PSVR2 deal, I'm surprised at that. I figured Sony were doing a worldwide flash sale to just get this thing into people's houses so that they can start making some money off the software at least. That's basically what Meta/Oculus did in 2017 with the Rift - that was another headset I was going to buy on day one, but it was too expensive for me to consider at the time (would have been something like £600 for the headset, then another £70 or something for the controllers, and I would need to buy a new PC at the same time). It was only when they brought the cost of the headset and controllers down to £399 in summer 2017 that I was able to afford to purchase it alongside a new PC. I'm in a different position financially these days, but even so, I baulked at the initial cost of the PSVR2. I think general VR sales have shown around £300 - £400 is the sweet spot for a decent level of hardware sales. Anything much above that and you're going to struggle - even with people like me who are generally enthusiastic about VR.

Fingers crossed Sony will see the success of the flash sale across the US & UK and give Europe a similar deal at some point soon. With the PC adapter it's become a great choice for PCVR players who don't want to splash out on an outdated Index or get sucked into the Quest's Meta ecosystem. The wire is a bit annoying, however one positive to that is that you never have to worry about the battery failing. Even with my Quest 2 plugged into an external battery or the PC itself, the battery still discharges as I play on PC. I do still have the OG Rift, but the resolution on that headset makes it difficult to use nowadays. Also having to set up all of the sensors is a serious pain. It's fun to do every so often for nostalgia, but the Rift isn't exactly a plug and play device. PSVR2, in theory, should be for both PC and PS5.

 

[DE4life]

I built my current PC in 2022. Did you build yours or buy it? A few years ago, GPUs were so fucking expensive that I almost didn't bother building. Luckily I found what I was looking for online and it was expensive but it was bundled with a 2TB SSD. So it was like 800, but at the time, a GTX 3070ti was going for that and more on it's own on eBay and other retailers. I think I spent just under 3k on my setup, which also included new monitors, keyboard, mouse, speakers, stuff like that. It was probably closer to 22-2300 in 2022 on my actual PC, which is:

GTX 3070ti
ASUS board - z490, which is also a gaming one
32 GB RAM
i9 10 core

Mine is liquid cooled, which is the first time I've ever gone that route. No complaints though because I can put this thing through hell (i.e. any modern game on ultra settings, and it stays nice and cool -- and quiet as a mouse to boot due to a nice big tower and lots of quiet fans).

I don't really do any VR, though I have been tossing around the idea of getting a Quest 3 because I have a friend who really wants to play horror VR stuff like Phasmophobia as a group. Plus I love escape rooms and shit like that and I know there's some VR stuff that fits that bill. I probably will get one eventually. As my buddy said to me, "well, you could just buy one and even if you don't enjoy VR gaming, there's always VR porn..."

I did consider building it - but there's one drawback in the UK compared to the US, and that's the lack of microcenters or any equivalent. You basically get no bundle deals, you just have to buy everything individually, which significantly impacts savings you'd otherwise make by building the PC yourself.

I basically went on PC Parts Picker after doing some research and put in what I wanted. Checked the calculated cost then went to some prebuild companies in the UK to see the difference. Ultimately it was around £100 difference, which to me wasn't enough of a cost saving to justify building it myself. Especially when I'd get a 3 year repair warranty from a prebuild company. I used a company called PCSpecialist for my last two laptops and they've been solid (second one fell all the way down a flight of stairs weeks after I received it but still never missed a beat), so I put the order through them again. Their customer service has always been great, even out of warranty, and they give the option to pay over 12 months which will help give my credit score a bit of a boost. Overall it just made sense to buy a prebuild. I got to choose all of the components, which was the main thing. You're obviously limited to what they have available, but for the important parts (CPU & GPU) they had what I wanted in a 7800x3D and 4070 Ti Super. The rest I can potentially upgrade myself if need be. I was able to opt out of having an operating system as well, which reduced the cost by a good £100+.

I think I likely kept cost down by not requiring any new hard drives (will just transfer my existing SSDs to the new PC), monitors (I only game in VR really, Football Manager aside, so the monitor doesn't matter), mice, speakers, keyboards, etc. I don't want or need to upgrade any of those components, I just need the base unit and I'm good.

I may still consider liquid cooling depending on how temps play out on this build. From what I've read the 7800x3D runs on really low wattage (something like 80w) and is generally very power efficient, so a 250w air cooler should be more than enough to keep it at a decent temperature. GPU temp I'll have to keep an eye on, but hopefully that'll be reasonable as well. I'm not really a hardcore gamer in any sense, it'll just be an occasional VR session which typically doesn't last much more than an hour or two. Granted I've had some GTA V VR sessions that have lasted 5 or 6 hours, and back in the day with Elite Dangerous as well, but it's the exception rather than the norm. Elite I was never much good at, so that didn't last too long problem with Elite in VR is that when you go on long trips you still have the headset on - it's not like when you're playing it on desktop and you can go and do something else on a separate monitor and keep an eye on the Elite window. I did at one point find a cool add-on which let you have facebook, youtube etc in the cockpit, which meant I could entertain myself on some journeys. Unfortunately the add in was ultimately a bit unstable, but when it worked it was very cool.

I've really enjoyed the Quest 2 - haven't got the 3 yet, but may do if it comes on sale at any point. I'd definitely recommend getting a Q3 if the opportunity arises, especially as you've got a solid spec PC. That opens the PCVR market up to you, which has some truly incredible experiences like Half Life Alyx and Elite Dangerous. Even VRChat can be mindblowing. Some guy created a world which is basically the FF7 Remake game areas imported into VRChat, and it's absolutely incredible. A lot of the best experiences are kind of old now, going back to 2017/2018 period, but if you've never experienced VR they will still be awesome. Especially Elite... that's just out of this world - literally as well as figuratively. Stuff like using VR Cinema and VR YouTube is pretty cool as well. GTA V in VR is insane, albeit there's a bit of work involved in getting it set up. Basically you have to download and install an old version of the game with online removed, then apply a mod patch. Once it's done then it's all good, and even though it's not an official VR game, as the mod is unofficial, it's the game I've spent the most time in by far. It's just amazing. I can't even play it flatscreen anymore.

Another cool little program, totally free, is EmuVR. Basically allows you to set up a teenage bedroom with old school TV, consoles, etc. You can put your own posters on the wall as well. From here you can watch TV (import media files into a folder and they become VHS cassettes in the game) or play on one of the old consoles. It's absolutely one of my favourite VR experiences, but only available on PCVR. Robo Recall and Google Earth are both amazing as well.

As far as VR Porn is concerned, I did test it out of curiosity and it is pretty cool in the way many VR videos are, but I've never actually made any use of it. I think it'd be too weird with the headset on, obscuring my view of everything around me, lol. All of the videos I have are just standard VR videos I found on YouTube, etc. These can also be very fun, especially if at a high resolution.

 

[eochaid]

I always build my pcs and then ensamble them when the pieces arrive. It does not only help to get a better price but it also helps to achieve a computer that better adapts to your needs.

 

[DE4life]

I probably got a little lucky with the PC I got in 2017. It was an eBay listing as a PC specifically built for VR - briefly used but the user had upgraded to something better. Specs were more than enough for me though and a great price even if used. The guy said he knew it was undervalued, but he just needed the money ASAP and wanted it go to somewhere it'd be appreciated. Sounds dodgy af in retrospect, but 7 years on it's still going strong and I'm only upgrading because the components are simply out of date for modern VR. The guy even sent me an additional cable to help with my Rift setup at no extra cost.

With that said, I wouldn't do that again, lol. I think I just got lucky that time. For the budget I had it was by far and away the best I could have gotten, but for all I know I could have received a shoddy build with a GPU that had already been given some serious mileage. Fortunately the guy I bought it off was competent and honest. Back then VR was even more of a niche community than it is now, so in many ways it really was just enthusiasts - generally guys in their late-20s to late-30s with disposable income who remembered the VR hype of the 90s. Generally I found the people I interacted with during that time, and even now who were from that time, to be really genuine in their love for the tech. I bought an Oculus Rift DK1 from a guy on eBay a few years back, and when it arrived it was missing a power cable. Not really a big deal, but I messaged him anyway just to ask if he had it. He didn't, but nonetheless refunded me the entire amount and told me to keep it. Much like the guy with the PC, said he just wanted it to go to someone who'd appreciate it. I didn't ask for nor expect a refund, but yeah, that's just how people from that early community are.

I'm still not sure serious, profitable VR has advanced beyond that core group of enthusiasts, in terms of the main demographic. I know the Quest 2 in particular made some inroads into casual homes - even my sister got one - but I think most people just saw it as a gimmick and treated it as such. Truth be told, a Quest 2 on its own is a bit of a gimmick. VR, in the form it needs to be in to truly impress, still requires a PC to reveal its true potential. I can't say I've really had any mindblowing experiences on the Quest 2 alone - although Walkabout Mini Golf and Wander are both incredible - but with PCVR? Plenty. Also with the PS4 and PSVR, to be fair. Games like RIGS and Farpoint are experiences I'll never forget. Wipeout is also incredible in VR. Astro Bot is really magical to play, especially the first time. Resident Evil 7 absolutely terrifying. Batman Arkham Asylum is short but awesome. PSVR Worlds is a tech demo but at the time was insane. Windlands genuinely made me feel light-headed as I leapt across platforms. Pinball FX 2 VR (now on Q2 and admittedly much better on there).

But yeah, in general, PCVR is where the real wow factor is at. Elite, Half Life Alyx, EmuVR, GTA V VR, Rec Room (Q2 standalone version is gimped), VRChat (Q2 standalone version is gimped), Robo Recall (Q2 version is actually OK, but PC version far superior), Holoball, Lone Echo 1 & 2, Echo Arena, No Man's Sky, Google Earth VR, Virtual Desktop, Beat Saber (granted this one is basically the same on Q2 as well), New Retro Arcade: Neon (literally walk into an arcade and play on the cabinets)...

I also got to play the Virtual Boy via the Rift, which was pretty cool.

I'm sure there's loads I'm missing out from here, too, but the point is when people talk about "oh VR just a gimmick like 3D, waste of money, hurr durr", it's bullshit. I'll admit most of the best experiences are from 2016-2019 period with a handful afterwards, but you know what? Those experiences are still fucking amazing today, and you don't even need to spend that much anymore to experience them. PS4 and PSVR? Probably dirt cheap these days to pick up. You can play all of the best games from 2016-2019 with a basic i5 processor and a GTX 1070. Again, not that expensive nowadays, especially if you already have something like a Quest 2.

The only criticism I accept is that VR isn't great if you're into online multiplayer as the community is still so small. That's a fair point, but fortunately I don't give a shit as I don't do online multiplayer. Only ever did that on RIGS, which was admittedly incredible, but probably a one off for me.

Also, accept that for some people the VR sickness might be an issue. Fair enough if so. I'm lucky not to have ever suffered from that.

 

[The Grayfox]

Even though I don't own any VR, I have used it. My brother in law had an Oculus at some point that I messed around with. It was entertaining and slightly nausea-inducing for me. I played some Rocky game which was pretty cool and then did an escape room. I'm sure you get used to all of it but it was very odd. My equilibrium felt all messed up. Some of the things you described sound really cool though, namely EmuVR. That sounds like something I could get lost in.

Virtual Boy mention gave me a flashback to being a kid in a Blockbuster Video where they had one set up. I think it was a Mario Tennis game. I remember not being impressed at all. I can clearly remember saying "why is it all red and black?" Obviously we know how successful that was. Ultimately, I think the gaming world is still full of old school gamers who would rather have a controller or m/k in hand and get the traditional experience. Hell, that's my preference because it's what I'm used to and just what I prefer. But that isn't to say I wouldn't enjoy more VR stuff either. Certain gimmicky stuff like the Wii for instance, didn't work for me. I wanted a traditional Zelda experience, not Skyward Sword. I'm set in my ways, what can I say?

 

[DE4life]

I'm lucky in that I don't get any kind of motion sickness. Even at the very beginning in some of the more vomit-inducing VR games I never felt anything beyond a bit of light-headedness. I've never had any feeling of nausea. I can understand that being off-putting for anyone who experiences it.

Honestly, a lot of my favourite VR experiences aren't even games, they're... well, experiences. Watching stuff in a giant, private cinema. Watching 180/360 videos in YouTube VR. Using EmuVR to simulate a bedroom with a bunch of old consoles and a big old CRT TV. Marvelling at some of the incredible virtual areas created in VRChat. Spending hours visiting all sorts of places in Google Earth VR and Wander. Exploring the SteamVR home areas, which are pretty cool and there are a lot of user generated ones too. Virtual Desktop and the Rift has some really cool home areas as well.

There are, of course, some incredible games too. But a lot of the 'wow' moments I had came from these apps which aren't even games. It's the kind of thing you can't really experience by trying out someone else's headset, it's something you find yourself when searching for cool things to do in VR. Admittedly it was a bit different in 2016/2017 as there were all sorts of experiments being attempted by both studios and indie devs - hell, EmuVR is literally a one man creation. Nowadays things are a lot more homogenised. The market is flooded with shooters in particular, I assume because they're the easiest VR game to make. I still feel like many of the older games and experiences from wen VR was first released are the best, which obviously isn't a very positive view on the current outlook of the industry, but those games and experiences are absolutely still worth trying.

 

[Cronopio]

I probably got a little lucky with the PC I got in 2017. It was an eBay listing as a PC specifically built for VR - briefly used but the user had upgraded to something better. Specs were more than enough for me though and a great price even if used. The guy said he knew it was undervalued, but he just needed the money ASAP and wanted it go to somewhere it'd be appreciated. Sounds dodgy af in retrospect, but 7 years on it's still going strong and I'm only upgrading because the components are simply out of date for modern VR. The guy even sent me an additional cable to help with my Rift setup at no extra cost.

With that said, I wouldn't do that again, lol. I think I just got lucky that time. For the budget I had it was by far and away the best I could have gotten, but for all I know I could have received a shoddy build with a GPU that had already been given some serious mileage. Fortunately the guy I bought it off was competent and honest. Back then VR was even more of a niche community than it is now, so in many ways it really was just enthusiasts - generally guys in their late-20s to late-30s with disposable income who remembered the VR hype of the 90s. Generally I found the people I interacted with during that time, and even now who were from that time, to be really genuine in their love for the tech. I bought an Oculus Rift DK1 from a guy on eBay a few years back, and when it arrived it was missing a power cable. Not really a big deal, but I messaged him anyway just to ask if he had it. He didn't, but nonetheless refunded me the entire amount and told me to keep it. Much like the guy with the PC, said he just wanted it to go to someone who'd appreciate it. I didn't ask for nor expect a refund, but yeah, that's just how people from that early community are.

I'm still not sure serious, profitable VR has advanced beyond that core group of enthusiasts, in terms of the main demographic. I know the Quest 2 in particular made some inroads into casual homes - even my sister got one - but I think most people just saw it as a gimmick and treated it as such. Truth be told, a Quest 2 on its own is a bit of a gimmick. VR, in the form it needs to be in to truly impress, still requires a PC to reveal its true potential. I can't say I've really had any mindblowing experiences on the Quest 2 alone - although Walkabout Mini Golf and Wander are both incredible - but with PCVR? Plenty. Also with the PS4 and PSVR, to be fair. Games like RIGS and Farpoint are experiences I'll never forget. Wipeout is also incredible in VR. Astro Bot is really magical to play, especially the first time. Resident Evil 7 absolutely terrifying. Batman Arkham Asylum is short but awesome. PSVR Worlds is a tech demo but at the time was insane. Windlands genuinely made me feel light-headed as I leapt across platforms. Pinball FX 2 VR (now on Q2 and admittedly much better on there).

But yeah, in general, PCVR is where the real wow factor is at. Elite, Half Life Alyx, EmuVR, GTA V VR, Rec Room (Q2 standalone version is gimped), VRChat (Q2 standalone version is gimped), Robo Recall (Q2 version is actually OK, but PC version far superior), Holoball, Lone Echo 1 & 2, Echo Arena, No Man's Sky, Google Earth VR, Virtual Desktop, Beat Saber (granted this one is basically the same on Q2 as well), New Retro Arcade: Neon (literally walk into an arcade and play on the cabinets)...

I also got to play the Virtual Boy via the Rift, which was pretty cool.

I'm sure there's loads I'm missing out from here, too, but the point is when people talk about "oh VR just a gimmick like 3D, waste of money, hurr durr", it's bullshit. I'll admit most of the best experiences are from 2016-2019 period with a handful afterwards, but you know what? Those experiences are still fucking amazing today, and you don't even need to spend that much anymore to experience them. PS4 and PSVR? Probably dirt cheap these days to pick up. You can play all of the best games from 2016-2019 with a basic i5 processor and a GTX 1070. Again, not that expensive nowadays, especially if you already have something like a Quest 2.

The only criticism I accept is that VR isn't great if you're into online multiplayer as the community is still so small. That's a fair point, but fortunately I don't give a shit as I don't do online multiplayer. Only ever did that on RIGS, which was admittedly incredible, but probably a one off for me.

Also, accept that for some people the VR sickness might be an issue. Fair enough if so. I'm lucky not to have ever suffered from that.

Yeah, I did indeed. Originally I ordered the adapter from Amazon Germany as it was out of stock all across the UK, but then it became available on PS Direct UK, so I cancelled the Amazon Germany order and got it from PS UK instead. My laptop actually has an RTX 2070 mobile, and I read that the RTX 2070 cards are capable of VirtualLink - which would mean I could actually plug the PSVR2 directly into the USB C slot as opposed to using the adapter. It also has a Mini-DP port and IF that port is DP 1.4 compatible I could also, theoretically, use this with the PC adapter. However I believe I'd need an additional Mini-DP to DP adapter/cable.

My guess, however, is that the laptop/mobile variant won't have the VirtualLink option, and the mini-DP port may well just be 1.2. I did ask the manufacturer but even they weren't sure, so I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the UK on the 23rd to find out. To be honest though, 2070 mobile on my laptop would give questionable results even if it did work, and I'd be really worried about overheating. Laptop chassis' never do well with this kind of thing and my laptop is 5 years old now. I pretty much always use my old PC to do VR, as even though the GTX 1070 is a little bit inferior to the RTX 2070 mobile, the lack of thermal throttling makes for a smoother overall experience. Also, honestly, the GTX 1070 has done a really good job over the past 7 years or so. I might not be able to play games at highest settings, but at medium settings it's still pretty damn solid. I was able to play Half-Life Alyx and GTA V VR perfectly well, anyway.

It sucks that Europe didn't get the PSVR2 deal, I'm surprised at that. I figured Sony were doing a worldwide flash sale to just get this thing into people's houses so that they can start making some money off the software at least. That's basically what Meta/Oculus did in 2017 with the Rift - that was another headset I was going to buy on day one, but it was too expensive for me to consider at the time (would have been something like £600 for the headset, then another £70 or something for the controllers, and I would need to buy a new PC at the same time). It was only when they brought the cost of the headset and controllers down to £399 in summer 2017 that I was able to afford to purchase it alongside a new PC. I'm in a different position financially these days, but even so, I baulked at the initial cost of the PSVR2. I think general VR sales have shown around £300 - £400 is the sweet spot for a decent level of hardware sales. Anything much above that and you're going to struggle - even with people like me who are generally enthusiastic about VR.

Fingers crossed Sony will see the success of the flash sale across the US & UK and give Europe a similar deal at some point soon. With the PC adapter it's become a great choice for PCVR players who don't want to splash out on an outdated Index or get sucked into the Quest's Meta ecosystem. The wire is a bit annoying, however one positive to that is that you never have to worry about the battery failing. Even with my Quest 2 plugged into an external battery or the PC itself, the battery still discharges as I play on PC. I do still have the OG Rift, but the resolution on that headset makes it difficult to use nowadays. Also having to set up all of the sensors is a serious pain. It's fun to do every so often for nostalgia, but the Rift isn't exactly a plug and play device. PSVR2, in theory, should be for both PC and PS5.

That's a nice novel you've got going there.

 

[DE4life]

Thanks, will you donate to my patreon?

 

[Cronopio]

Why the f not?

 

[DE4life]

Nice. If all I need to do is write long paragraphs of nonsense then it's all good @Jester Slave let me know if you want in, I'll give you a 20% cut (minus administration fees).

 

[mindd]

So I've been to an @DE4life countryboy Ed Sheeran show yesterday, thanks to my girlfriend, who wanted to see the show. Don't know any of his songs except a couple that were everywhere on the radio/social media and I'm not a fan of him or that kind of music in general, but the lad gives a good show, he even made the instrumentals himself live with guitars, a piano and loop and feedback pedals. And he's a good live singer, too, unlike some other people. Should we petition to replace Anders with a redhead Brit?

 

[DE4life]

He's not just my countryman - he literally comes from the same town as me, lol. He's put some investment in the local football team recently as well as sponsoring them. Good lad.

Ed's music isn't really my thing, but I do agree he's a good singer and talented guy.

Personally I'd like to replace Anders with Jake just to see Krofius, Ciko, Slave etc explode in rage. Would be wonderful.

 

[Xpyro125]

Personally I'd like to replace Anders with Jake just to see Krofius, Ciko, Slave etc explode in rage. Would be wonderful.

I can’t wait for the lyrics to go even further downhill into generic rockstar megalomania— And I say this as a (kind of) fan of Jake

 

[The Grayfox]

Supposedly Ed Sheeran recorded a song with Cradle of Filth. I don't care for his music either, but I am interested in seeing how that will work.

 

[Moonshield_]

Just wanted to share a thought regarding the concept of hearing singles before an album drops:

I'll try not to listen to any of them from now on because I've noticed that when listening to the full album once it's released I do not value singles as much as the other songs whereas they can objectively be amongst my favourites of the album.

Just because I've already heard them a couple of times before the full album release.

We haven't had any singles for the coming Wintersun album and I like that because I'll put all the songs on the same level and the surprise will be complete.

I've quit drinking, I can quit listening to singles.

(PS: This only concerns bands whose I've got great expectations from)

 

[The Grayfox]

To be fair, the reason there's no Wintersun single is because there's only 4 actual songs on the album I can't wait for it though. Only a few more days.

I hear what you're saying though and I think I have the same general reaction. It's almost hard to enjoy an album as a whole experience on release because there are singles that have been out for months that you're just burned out on. It takes away from it. Even with Endgame Signals, I found myself not really interested in The Last Imagination, Unforgivable and Not Nothing -- not because they're bad songs, but just because I was sort of tiring on them already. I miss when it was just one single to give you a small taste, if even that.

 

[drawntoblack]

The problem is that nowadays you have 4 singles before an album drops, that's sometimes half an album already. It makes it very hard to experience album as a whole from first song to last and to allow it to leave an impression. Nothing to lose by ignoring singles ahead.

No comment on Wintersun, there are people who have been waiting for 20 years for this album to come out. Good luck meeting those expectations.

 

[The Grayfox]

Not worried about the expectations, having heard live versions of two of the four songs already. Plus the snippets all sound amazing. For me, Wintersun doesn't put out bad music. The path Jari takes to get there? Not the greatest, but I've never had a bad thing to say about his music.