2007 Album Stats and Analysis (Awesome stuff inside)

[eaeolian]

Combine that with technology that's easier/less expensive to use and the internet (and CD market) is flooded with crap, a lot of which I'm guessing is self-financed or self-released.

Really? I've heard lots of big-dollar, highly-processed and perfectly executed crap, too.

Like it or not, there's a market for growlies, and for screaming. In fact, I suspect the screaming market (as it currently exists) is bigger than the whiny-I-really-need-pitch-correction-bad-prog-band singer market (which drives me as crazy as the screamers), simply based on sales.

 

[dcowboys311]

Wow. Get better taste in music dude.

Most death metal is better than 60% of these cookie cutter prog and power bands that don't do anything new for the genre. Granted that there are just as many generic death metal bands out there, but at least death metal has many forms and sub genres (and thus more bands... so even if there are just as many generic death metal bands as generic power, there are still more unique death metal bands than power). How many does power metal have? If you want to be nice you can argue 2 or 3 compared to death metal's growing number...

Oh, and if you still use the term "cookie monster vocals," you need to get out of the 80s or stop listening to metal. There are many many many many different variations of death metal vocal.

Some would argue that the "variations" on the death metal genre aren't even really death metal anymore. Ex: melo-death has created a unique enough sound for itself that it really shouldn't be considered death metal. So, when you break it down, death metal has about as many "sounds" as power metal.

And yeah, you have your standard Helloween-clone power metal sound, but there is also a sudden surge of bands that incorporate a thrashier sound along with power metal, and plenty of power metal bands are doing unique things. You just need to know where to look, which is pretty much the case with any genre of metal.

 

[J-Man]

Wow. Get better taste in music dude.

Most death metal is better than 60% of these cookie cutter prog and power bands that don't do anything new for the genre. Granted that there are just as many generic death metal bands out there, but at least death metal has many forms and sub genres (and thus more bands... so even if there are just as many generic death metal bands as generic power, there are still more unique death metal bands than power). How many does power metal have? If you want to be nice you can argue 2 or 3 compared to death metal's growing number...

Oh, and if you still use the term "cookie monster vocals," you need to get out of the 80s or stop listening to metal. There are many many many many different variations of death metal vocal.

#1. I have yet to hear cookie cutter progressive bands, granted some do sound somewhat alike but there is always something in there to make them at least a little different.
#2. It may take talent to sing with growls and screams, i don't know, but I do know that most progressive and power bands DO have, in 99% of the bands a lead vocalist that can sing, and can be understood.

I am not knocking death and black metal as there is some, although very little that i like.

Now as to numbers, here are the number of bands worldwide as of 1 Nov. 2007 according to the Encyclopedia Metallum:

Death Metal - 18,328
Black Metal - 13,572
Thrash - 11,892
Traditional - 8,970
Power - 3,893
Doom - 3,886
Progressive - 3,405
Gothic - 1,909
Symphonic - 982
Folk 890

Does this mean Black and Death are more popular? It could be, then again it could be that thing called Talent, maybe it takes a little more talent to succeed in the other genres. Just my humble opinion.

 

[dcowboys311]

Does this mean Black and Death are more popular? It could be, then again it could be that thing called Talent, maybe it takes a little more talent to succeed in the other genres. Just my humble opinion.

You also have a shit-ton of one man black metal bands using a microphone from Walmart to record onto his PC and then releasing it as an album, so that inflates the numbers a lot.

Also, the numbers of albums released don't measure success. Any band from the middle of nowhere can get on that site as long as they've released an album. Doesn't matter if 2 people or 200,000 people have purchased it.

 

[J-Man]

You also have a shit-ton of one man black metal bands using a microphone from Walmart to record onto his PC and then releasing it as an album, so that inflates the numbers a lot.

Also, the numbers of albums released don't measure success. Any band from the middle of nowhere can get on that site as long as they've released an album. Doesn't matter if 2 people or 200,000 people have purchased it.

How true that is. There are even a few Black metal bands from Saudi Arabia. but granted they all have either the same members or some of the same members. I thought that was funny.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

#1. I have yet to hear cookie cutter progressive bands, granted some do sound somewhat alike but there is always something in there to make them at least a little different.
#2. It may take talent to sing with growls and screams, i don't know, but I do know that most progressive and power bands DO have, in 99% of the bands a lead vocalist that can sing, and can be understood.

There are plenty (and when I mean plenty.. I mean easily a few hundred) of Dream Theater/Symphony X rip off bands (that I won't name formally) that consider themselves progressive.

It may take talent to sing with growls and screams, i don't know, but I do know that most progressive and power bands DO have, in 99% of the bands a lead vocalist that can sing, and can be understood.

So do pop punk and emo bands. What is your point?

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

This truly is fascinating stuff. I love facts and figures. It puts things in perspective.

Thanks for posting it, Glenn!

And, Fiddler, I'm sure if you tried a little harder you could express your innermost feelings more accurately. I think you're holding back.

 

[Mosquito]

Yep, because it takes 0% talent to sing like cookie monster - anybody can do it.

I disagree completely.

 

[Pellaz]

How true that is. There are even a few Black metal bands from Saudi Arabia. but granted they all have either the same members or some of the same members. I thought that was funny.

Err, you could replace "Saudi Arabia" with "Norway" and that sentence still flies.

 

[The Fiddler]

Wow. Get better taste in music dude. ... so even if there are just as many generic death metal bands as generic power, there are still more unique death metal bands than power). How many does power metal have? If you want to be nice you can argue 2 or 3 compared to death metal's growing number...

Only 2 to 3 unique prog/power bands, huh?

Here are 8 prog/power bands I enjoy that I found unique when they first appeared. There may have been imitations since then, but tell me, who was sounding like the bands below BEFORE they existed (i.e. who did the bands below rip off)?

Nightwish
Symphony X
Kamelot
After Forever
Iced Earth
Fates Warning
Queensyche (ala the early years, Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, etc.,)
Blind Guardian

p.s. I wonder how many others feel that my taste in music is as bad as you claim.

 

[J-Man]

Only 2 to 3 unique prog/power bands, huh?

Here are 8 prog/power bands I enjoy that I found unique when they first appeared. There may have been imitations since then, but tell me, who was sounding like the bands below BEFORE they existed (i.e. who did the bands below rip off)?

Nightwish
Symphony X
Kamelot
After Forever
Iced Earth
Fates Warning
Queensyche (ala the early years, Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, etc.,)
Blind Guardian

p.s. I wonder how many others feel that my taste in music is as bad as you claim.

I love your taste in music, and to add a few more that jumped out at me as unique:

PATHOSRAY
SOLID VISION
MINDFLOW
SERENITY(Power/Prog)
FRAGILE VASTNESS
DIVISION BY ZERO
SHADOW GALLERY
PAGAN"S MIND
VOLBEAT

 

[Urban breed]

It takes 0% talent to sing

Thank you so much. My head finally shrunk down to slighly below watermelon size. (A big one but still.)
Maybe, now, people will find me almost tolerable.

 

[dcowboys311]

Thank you so much. My head finally shrunk down to slighly below watermelon size. (A big one but still.)
Maybe, now, people will find me almost tolerable.

You took that out of context. There is a HUGE difference between singing and singing well. Hell, I can sing. But can I sing well? Not at all.

 

[The Fiddler]

You took that out of context. There is a HUGE difference between singing and singing well. Hell, I can sing. But can I sing well? Not at all.

Which brings me to the question I posed earlier which no death vocal defender has been able to answer:

What criteria make one growler more talented than another?

Is it that some growlers can "growl in key" better than others?

Can some growlers span 5 octaves instead of 2?

 

[dcowboys311]

Which brings me to the question I posed earlier which no death vocal defender has been able to answer:

What criteria make one growler more talented than another?

Is it that some growlers can "growl in key" better than others?

Can some growlers span 5 octaves instead of 2?

The same criteria that makes one clean vocalist better than another, I suppose.

Some harsh vocalists only use the deep death grunts, others have range from those to shrieking, high-pitched black metal screams. Range plays a big part in harsh vocals.

I really don't know that much about music theory and how it relates to vocals though, so I'm probably not the most qualified person to answer this question.

Of course, like it is with clean vocals, at the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference.

 

[Cheiron]

Which brings me to the question I posed earlier which no death vocal defender has been able to answer:

What criteria make one growler more talented than another?

Is it that some growlers can "growl in key" better than others?

Can some growlers span 5 octaves instead of 2?

DevilDriver guy can't growl in key live. He can't even talk in key though.

Ask yourself, why is Swano's growl so well respected? Its mostly because he makes it sound so good. Which is 1/3 talent, 1/3 quality recording/production, and 1/3 natural sound.

Some growlers are very 'breathy'. It sounds crappy when focused on.

Some growlers can sound incredibly brutal yet enunciate and yes... span an octave or so. Some growlers are incredibly monotone.

Some growlers will hit notes consistently. Other growlers go 'what are notes?'

Some growlers have good rythm. Other growlers go 'wtf??? this is metal nut ur oprah shit! go back to italy wagner!'

[note: I know its opera, and that Wagner wasn't from italy, unless I was talking about Gottfried Wagner. But I wasn't]

Some growler's 'tone' just sounds bad. Some growlers have a great tone.

Some growler's can make you feel something by their inflections.

 

[skyrefuge]

Which brings me to the question I posed earlier which no death vocal defender has been able to answer:

It's not a matter of ability. Some of us just didn't want to turn this thread into another 'growls vs. clean' debate. But if you insist...

There are a million things that could make one growler more talented than another. He can growl deeper. He can scream higher. He can bellow for longer without taking a breath. He can scream for a whole concert without losing his voice. He can be both intense and intelligible. He can be the least intelligible. He can make the most children cry. He can spit blood the farthest. Etc.

But who cares? Selecting music that you like based on the perceived talent-level of the performers seems like such a soulless, number-crunching way to appreciate music.

I don't differentiate any musicians, growlers included, by measuring some sort of objective "talent level" and cross-referencing it to a chart. For me, it's much simpler: I do it by whoever sounds better. I don't know why some "sound better" to me than others, they just do, and there's no need (or opportunity) to analyze it farther than that. I save my charts and analysis for meta-musical topics!

There are plenty of clean vocalists who can sing perfectly in key, but have a timbre that sounds terrible to me. Or ones with a 5 octave range who sing boring vocal lines. So for me, "talent" is really a bad way to find music that I like. Why is it important to you?

Neil

 

[rms]

Only 2 to 3 unique prog/power bands, huh?

Here are 8 prog/power bands I enjoy that I found unique when they first appeared. There may have been imitations since then, but tell me, who was sounding like the bands below BEFORE they existed (i.e. who did the bands below rip off)?

Nightwish
Symphony X
Kamelot
After Forever
Iced Earth
Fates Warning
Queensyche (ala the early years, Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, etc.,)
Blind Guardian

p.s. I wonder how many others feel that my taste in music is as bad as you claim.

Nightwish was unique, BG was power metal for like 3 cds. And then you list like 2 bands that are founders of the genre so obviously they can be unique, and AF is more considered Gothic Metal.

 

[Urban breed]

You took that out of context.

I was just having fun with it, that's all. Sorry if I made it look like a semi-serious reply.
If I'd made a serious reply it would look rather like this:
It doesn't really matter if it takes talent or not, some will prefer the one over the other and most of us will have different reasons for doing so.
And, my opinion in cases like this, well, I mostly keep it to myself and those, poor souls, I consider close friends.
Besides, I won't even try to convince anyone I'm right.
I might try to make you see my side of things but I don't expect you to change your mind accordingly.
In most cases it doesn't really matter anyway.

However, if you were trying to make an argument as to why the numbers look the way they do, Todd's is not a bad one. It's not necessarily correct, it might be completely off the mark, but it is one possible explanation.
You might know it takes some serious talent to growl properly.
I'm sure it does. Just like I know it takes a few minutes to learn how to sing in the style I normally do. I know the time I spent figuring it all out was completely lost on some people. Just like a really good growl technique is completely wasted on me.
The argument Todd made was most likely based on the fact that the numbers have changed and then he went looking at what else had changed and the vocal delivery was one thing. Coincidence, or not, but there it is.
Todd, I'm sure, is perfectly aware that there are other factors that've changed too.
Just compare the number of bands out there today with, say 20 years ago...

Ah, never mind, this is getting boring, and going absolutely nowhere...

Oh, and btw, I was in no way offended.
Ask anyone, this is not an area where I'm "offendable".
Except maybe that one time where this guy walked up to me, utterly amazed, saying "Dude! You sound just like King Diamond!!".

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

Only 2 to 3 unique prog/power bands, huh?

Here are 8 prog/power bands I enjoy that I found unique when they first appeared. There may have been imitations since then, but tell me, who was sounding like the bands below BEFORE they existed (i.e. who did the bands below rip off)?

Nightwish
Symphony X
Kamelot
After Forever
Iced Earth
Fates Warning
Queensyche (ala the early years, Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, etc.,)
Blind Guardian

p.s. I wonder how many others feel that my taste in music is as bad as you claim.

Holy crap dude, way to totally edit my text and take my statement out of context. Denial of this will prove that you're a lying piece of shit since you've accidentally included the ending parenthesis but not the first one due to the fact that you were editing what I had typed to say something completely different.

I said that there are only 2 to 3 subgenres of power metal, not bands. There are 6-7, easily more subgenres of death metal which yields a higher good to bad ratio.

And yes you have poor taste in music if all you listen to is metal (especially only power or progressive metal).