Now Van's open to a reunion

[El Stormo]

Okay, but you're making an assumption as well, because how could you or any band know they'd release mediocre albums immediately following a really great record? They couldn't. So your argument works as far as it goes, which isn't very far.

When did I say a band knows when they're only going to release mediocre albums? I said in the end, it's better that they quit instead of releasing mediocre albums. I didn't say they automatically know when that time is. On top of that, I'm pretty sure a lot of bands actually did know it was time to quit, and they continued on anyway.

Their next album, if it ever comes, will surely be a fucking monster because the band will make damn sure it's a monster.

Now there's an assumption.

 

[Dead Winter]

For example, songs like this really do nothing for me:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak6M4blISuA&feature=relmfu[/ame]

But songs like this one blow me away:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8yUkr8NqM&feature=relmfu[/ame]

 

[craptastic]

All he cares about is being famous. The way he whores himself out now is disgusting. Even his hair, used to be every video you saw of him he had the waves going. Now everytime you see him, it's freshly straightened because he wants to look pretty for the camrea. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been wearing make up, either.

Definitely the most comical thing you've said on these forums. What did you think of when Warrel dyed his hair black, or almost black? Was he going goth? Was he going mainstream or underground?

You sir, are fucking retarded.



ANYWAY, I'd kill to know what happened with Smyth and Nevermore. I thought he was the perfect fit, even though Calvert was awesome too.

 

[Traxan]

Steve's take on it was pretty humorous, actually - and it confirmed a few things for me.

What humorous take? Every interview I saw was him being very judicious, saying it was business and personal differences and leaving it at that.

Then again, Pat's departure was portrayed as him leaving voluntarily and he said he was fired. So straight answers tend to be hard to come by.

 

[Traxan]

Guys, Jeff is too good to be caged up, for lack of a better term. He's been the best heavy metal guitarist for over a decade, easily. It shouldn't be a surprise that he got famous and wants to branch out and do his own thing for a while. You don't have to like it, but it should not be surprising. Plus, no one said a thing about him in this regard after ZOP came out, or especially about WD when he released his solo record. It only came after the band broke up, and most of it was tossed on Jeff. Yes, I defend him a lot, but I do so because there's been a clear pattern on this board of hating on him since NM broke up. Everyone praised him for a decade and a half - his skills, his songwriting, etc - and then it suddenly became cool to say that he's dried up and can't play the guitar anymore. It's silly.

Um, what? He's the one who quit and didn't tell Warrel. WD said he learned the news reading Blabbermouth.That's not a cool way to handle things.

Saying he's fallen into a repetitive rut is not hating on the dude. It's fair criticism, just like saying WD can't hit the high notes in Sanctuary any more.

 

[Lordlucid]

No guitarist does an instrumental solo album because they want to connect with fans or because they have something to say. The only thing they have to say is, "Look at how awesome I am".

I disagree with this statement. Just because they're doing a solo album doesn't mean that they're merely trying to show off. I feel that it has more to do with control. Theoretically, in a band the members should have equal parts in writing, producing, and helping to lead the band in the direction that they agree upon. In a solo album the artist in question can freely do what they want whether its a guitarist, or a vocalist, or a fluffer. Maybe show that world that they're more than just attached to one band/type of music and I get that from Jeff's solo albums, they're not Nevermore.

 

[Dead Winter]

To me, a neoclassical metal guitar solo album is by definition an attention-seeker; the entire album revolves around you and your finger Olympics. This is neither good nor bad, it's just how it is. Maybe Jeff is a really humble guy and doesn't take himself very seriously, but people who release guitar god solo albums where the main instrument is a metal guitar and the amazing things you can do with it aren't exactly playing down their presence. The entire album is focused on you and just you. It's the music industry's version of circus jugglers juggling flaming chainsaws.

In ZOP, I hear Nevermore without Warrel...that's it. He didn't exactly try to distance himself stylistically because the production, music, and style is all Nevermore. If Jeff had a one hour solo part in a NM concert in which he played ZOP, it wouldn't sound strange at all because it sounds like NM.

This is why I call bullshit on the "he just wanted more freedom" hypotheses. If he wanted more freedom to do what he wanted, he wouldn't have written an album full of Nevermore songs for his solo album.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Definitely the most comical thing you've said on these forums. What did you think of when Warrel dyed his hair black, or almost black? Was he going goth? Was he going mainstream or underground?

You sir, are fucking retarded.



ANYWAY, I'd kill to know what happened with Smyth and Nevermore. I thought he was the perfect fit, even though Calvert was awesome too.

That comment I made about Jeff's appearance was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but I'll bite.

Irrelevant, because Warrel isn't endorsing every microphone company he comes across and posing for magazines everyday. And he's always been goth since the band started. (Guys, don't comment on that because I have my own definition of goth in my head) And I'm pretty sure he died his hair because it's turning grey.

There's a video on youtube of Jeff endorsing and playing Line 6 Spider IV amps. Digital amps marketed at teenagers (with such amp models as "Insane") that no self respecting guitarist would ever dream of using live. Again, whoring.

 

[El Stormo]

he's always been goth since the band started. (Guys, don't comment on that because I have my own definition of goth in my head)

Oh, John...

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

When did I say a band knows when they're only going to release mediocre albums? I said in the end, it's better that they quit instead of releasing mediocre albums. I didn't say they automatically know when that time is. On top of that, I'm pretty sure a lot of bands actually did know it was time to quit, and they continued on anyway.



Now there's an assumption.

El Stormo this is my point: You said that you'd rather have a band go out on a high note instead of releasing mediocre albums and then disband. We all would in theory, but it's a position purely based on hindsight. We say that AFTER bands release poor albums. Did anyone say they hoped Nevermore would disband after TGE came out? Of course not.

My original point to Det Som was that IF a band released a super ass kicking album, we as fans would listen to it religiously and wait anxiously for their follow-up. We would NOT say, "wow, this new album is amazing. I hope the band quits so they don't release a poor follow-up and ruin their legacy". It would make no sense. They only way it would make sense is IF you (or the band) knew that any future release would be mediocre, thus blemishing their legacy. THAT, my friend, is where the assumption comes in.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

That comment I made about Jeff's appearance was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but I'll bite.

Irrelevant, because Warrel isn't endorsing every microphone company he comes across and posing for magazines everyday. And he's always been goth since the band started. (Guys, don't comment on that because I have my own definition of goth in my head) And I'm pretty sure he died his hair because it's turning grey.

There's a video on youtube of Jeff endorsing and playing Line 6 Spider IV amps. Digital amps marketed at teenagers (with such amp models as "Insane") that no self respecting guitarist would ever dream of using live. Again, whoring.

I understand your point, but you must realize that endorsing products comes with a certain level of professional achievement. I can't knock him for endorsing a piece of metal and plastic. And it in no way proves that he just wants to be famous.

 

[Super Mahrio]

To me, a neoclassical metal guitar solo album is by definition an attention-seeker; the entire album revolves around you and your finger Olympics. This is neither good nor bad, it's just how it is. Maybe Jeff is a really humble guy and doesn't take himself very seriously, but people who release guitar god solo albums where the main instrument is a metal guitar and the amazing things you can do with it aren't exactly playing down their presence. The entire album is focused on you and just you. It's the music industry's version of circus jugglers juggling flaming chainsaws.

In ZOP, I hear Nevermore without Warrel...that's it. He didn't exactly try to distance himself stylistically because the production, music, and style is all Nevermore. If Jeff had a one hour solo part in a NM concert in which he played ZOP, it wouldn't sound strange at all because it sounds like NM.

This is why I call bullshit on the "he just wanted more freedom" hypotheses. If he wanted more freedom to do what he wanted, he wouldn't have written an album full of Nevermore songs for his solo album.

Stop the fucking presses. This is a monumental red letter day here. I agree with Dead Winter.

It always appeared to me that Jeff Loomis was more than content with doing the same old thing over and over again. While he is a great guitarist, i feel that this is the reason he falls a bit short as an actual musician. To me, being a musician and composer is about exploring creativity with sound and pushing that creativity to its boundries and beyond. Seeing how far one can go with their music. Jeff....doesnt do this. At. All. Warrel's solo record feature a lot of musical transition. (even if it is rather subtle) So yeah.

he's always been goth since the band started. (Guys, don't comment on that because I have my own definition of goth in my head)

lol

 

[Traxan]

It always appeared to me that Jeff Loomis was more than content with doing the same old thing over and over again. While he is a great guitarist, i feel that this is the reason he falls a bit short as an actual musician. To me, being a musician and composer is about exploring creativity with sound and pushing that creativity to its boundries and beyond. Seeing how far one can go with their music. Jeff....doesnt do this. At. All. Warrel's solo record feature a lot of musical transition. (even if it is rather subtle) So yeah.

That's a nice sentiment but you are forgetting how conservative metal fans can be, especially if you stray too far from the reservation. If Loomis started doing insane shit, some people here would bitch that he lost it/sold out/whatever.

I get the feeling Jeff will never be an Alex Skolnick, straddling two very different musical worlds. The only other guys I could see doing it were Randy Rhodes and Jason Becker. I got the impression they would do time in both the classical and metal worlds, but we'll never know, will we?

Thing is, while Skolnick is the more versatile guitarist, Testament's best album ("The Gathering") was not made with him. James Murphy was behind that album. He may not have Skol's skills but he's a better metal guitarist. Where Skol pulls back, Murphy charges ahead. "The Gathering" would not have been as good with Skol, IMO. It just shows there is no "best," there are too damn many facets of what make a guitarist great.

That said, laziness is not subjective. If Jeff falls into that rut, he'll be doing clinics to diminishing audiences and living off a past reputation 10 years from now.

 

[Super Mahrio]

That's a nice sentiment but you are forgetting how conservative metal fans can be, especially if you stray too far from the reservation. If Loomis started doing insane shit, some people here would bitch that he lost it/sold out/whatever.

A true pity....

Theres a reason why Devin Townsend is one of only things in metal i really care about anymore...

 

[Traxan]

There's a video on youtube of Jeff endorsing and playing Line 6 Spider IV amps. Digital amps marketed at teenagers (with such amp models as "Insane") that no self respecting guitarist would ever dream of using live. Again, whoring.

I saw that video and wondered WTF he was thinking. He sounded like absolute shit, and it was while playing his Schecter, so it was clearly the amp. And he endorses ENGL, so where did that come from?

 

[Super Mahrio]

Money dear boy.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

I wish I knew how to explain what I meant by the goth thing.

I think goth has less to do with music and more to do with a mentality of people that lived the alternative lifestyle in the 90s. Although, the song Dreaming Neon Black screams goth to me, so does the In Memory album.

Anyway, I miss goth. The night life, the women. I was just a kid, but man, that was a cool time to be a young American.

As far as the "gothic" genre of music, I even loved some of that. Kind of makes me want to go fag it up at Numbers some night. (A club Nevermore's played before) I'd really like to hear Warrel sing on something keyboard/synth driven, or at least a metal band with a keyboard player, because guitar focused music is too restrictive on his godly voice.

 

[Super Mahrio]

Anyway, I miss goth.

Hahaha. Its definitely still a thing, bro. Just more in fringe groups now. (like it should be.)

Also:

 

[El Stormo]

El Stormo this is my point: You said that you'd rather have a band go out on a high note instead of releasing mediocre albums and then disband. We all would in theory, but it's a position purely based on hindsight.

When did I say it wasn't? Let me - AGAIN - repeat myself: I don't expect bands to know when that time has come, when the well dries up. Some bands know it, some don't - that doesn't change the fact that, yes, in hindsight, I would rather that a band had stopped at its peak rather than bring out mediocre albums.

I never once stated that all bands know when that time has come.

My original point to Det Som was that IF a band released a super ass kicking album, we as fans would listen to it religiously and wait anxiously for their follow-up. We would NOT say, "wow, this new album is amazing. I hope the band quits so they don't release a poor follow-up and ruin their legacy". It would make no sense. They only way it would make sense is IF you (or the band) knew that any future release would be mediocre, thus blemishing their legacy. THAT, my friend, is where the assumption comes in.

I understand what you mean, but again, that's not my point. My point is that IN HINDSIGHT, it's always better if a band quits at their peak, or at least early in its decline, rather than clinging on to dear life and releasing mediocre album after mediocre album.

 

[Traxan]

Bands rarely know when they are off their peak. They are usually surrounded by yes men who value their job and will never speak honestly to them.

Then there's the fact lightning rarely strikes twice. Can you think of anyone who left a successful band and started a new one that did just as well? I'm not talking about solo artists like Ozzy. I mean bands. Mustaine is one of the few who comes to mind. Maybe we can say Warrel and Jim, because I'd say Nevermore surpassed Sanctuary, but that's only because Sanctuary's run was cut short due to grunge.

And in the end, most people will stick with what they know.