Ooh, I've really done it now (or: my philosophy on guitarists)

Metaltastic

Member
Feb 20, 2005
19,930
1
36
I know I started a thread similar to this some time ago (here), but I feel like I've really honed and perfected my treatise on the subject in another argument on the Boogie Board (continuing from this thread) that is sure to raise some hackles. But fuck it, I stand by it! Here we go...

l feel that playing a rig live and in the room smears over WAY more details than recording it, because close-mic'ing that sucker in a studio environment puts it under the ultimate microscope, and drags all the worst aspects into the light, where they can't be obscured by such factors as huge volume, low-end thunk (it can be intoxicating, I can't deny), reflections EVERYWHERE, and of course, the thrill of wielding such power. Thus, I feel you can "get away" with a lot more with a room tone, but I also feel that any tonal change made for the benefit of a recording (especially about fitting in the overall mix) will almost always also be the best (or close to it) for live tones. Not to mention the extreme potential for placebo effect (which is present in recording too, of course, but at least one can get many other opinions to confirm/deny it by submitting clips in a blind test and gauging the results).

And that of course assumes that the guitarist has any idea what good tone is in the first place; I doubt I'm alone in having experienced countless shows where the guitarist is running a Metal Zone into the clean channel of his Rectifier (that sounds like balls), cranking up a Sonic Maximizer in the loop (that sounds like balls), or just tweaking the amp to sound more like balls then ever thought possible. And since they barely know anything about concepts of mixing, it's kinda hard to blame them! And the horror stories I have heard from recording engineers who deal with guitarists that come in with "their own tone", and being absolutely dumbfounded by how awful it sounds; as I said, there are plenty of guitarists who do have some idea what they're doing, and then plenty that do not! And to be clear, I still consider myself a guitarist first, recording engineer second, but the latter has definitely had a huge influence (for the better IMO) on my philosophies as the former!

However, to finish the thought, since as I said I feel you can get away with a lot more in a live environment, feel free to make some unorthodox choices in your gear/settings in the hopes of defining "your own tone", and maybe they'll even work well enough in the room - just try not to take it too hard if you go in for a recording and the engineer politely but firmly insists on taking DI's for re-amping :D

Pretty proud of that I must say; I labored for quite awhile to phrase it as clearly AND tactfully as I could; one thing I've learned is that people aren't gonna respond to your suggestions (no matter how valid they are) if you're a cock about them! ;)

Here's the thread on that forum this little speech is from, btw (another good read for those who wanna get some serious facepalm-ing in :D)
 
all makes perfect sense to me! Your mention of Metal Zone pedals and Sonic Maximizers brings back some painful memories of the days before I DI'ed everything :erk:

When a guitarist has their "tone" set in mind, 9 times out of 10 in my case its been what they THINK is the best sound they can dial out with their shit equipment, when they would totally shit 12 bricks if they heard how awesome they would sound with a TS>JCM800>Mesa Cab (or something of that caliber)
 
I actually barked at my monitor out loud, "Are you TRYING to be an ass?!"

Hahaha, yeah, I'm working on responding to all that, hold please (though don't get your hopes up too much for a shitstorm, I'm trying to stay diplomatic :D)
 
Do you happen to know how old he is? The location listed in his user ID is the same town I graduated from high school in, so I've been trying to remember if I knew any real dicks. :lol:
 
I've been going to that board for a while, and like a lot of guys on the ESP board, there are a lot of members with really nice gear that 1) can't play for shit and 2) have some of the worst guitar sounds I've ever heard pulled out of top of the line equipment. I wouldn't worry about it dude, it's not worth your time.
 
Yeah, I hear ya man, and I'm not getting too bent out of shape about it really - actually, I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to polish that little speech up there, which was the main point of this thread :D And lest there be any doubt, the tone you had from your Roadster setup that one time I saw you guys totally blew me away (and this was in FA212 no less :loco: ), so that was chiefly in my mind when I made clear that I don't think all guitarists are clueless about what sounds good! :headbang: (I labored to make that sound as little like "giving the Marcus seal of approval" as possible, hope it worked :lol: )
 
Yeah, I hear ya man, and I'm not getting too bent out of shape about it really - actually, I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to polish that little speech up there, which was the main point of this thread :D And lest there be any doubt, the tone you had from your Roadster setup that one time I saw you guys totally blew me away (and this was in FA212 no less :loco: ), so that was chiefly in my mind when I made clear that I don't think all guitarists are clueless about what sounds good! :headbang: (I labored to make that sound as little like "giving the Marcus seal of approval" as possible, hope it worked :lol: )

Haha, it's all good man. If anything I'm stoked to have the Tannoy's and the UA SOLO 610 now. I've been a tone freak for well over a decade and was actually able to coax some badass tones out of my old Cakewalk rig with a dbx 286A mic pre, but when I made the jump to ProTools with the 002, I was basically thinking, "WTF just happend?"

Now (unlike then) I'm painfully aware of how shitty the pre's are on the 002 and will be using the 610 exclusively. :lol:
 
I remember thinking something similar. :lol:

I also distinctly remember walking by an MG100 fullstack in a shop one day when I had no idea about anything and said to myself, "wow, that must be what Metallica use".
 
Yep, definitely agreed with that. So to be fair it was only about 4 weeks I start becoming interested in this stuff and started coming to this forum, but already my concept of tone has changed in that time.
I still sound like shit because I am a beginner at this stuff, but I'm improving I think.
I have so many bad memories of school, with guys coming in with their 1990s Boss multi effects pedal, turning the gain up to levels beyond what seems even possible and scooping every mid frequency possible and then proceeding to sweep pick all over the fretboard:erk:
Another funny one is when people say shit like "OH MAN I BOUGHT A POD X3 AND RETURNED IT TO THE SHOP WITHIN AN HOUR COS I DIDNT LIKE HOW IT SOUNDED":erk:
Geezus christ, seriously? It's embarrassing how many people don't understand a lot of these things need months (and even years) of tweaking before you find the right sounds for either live or recording use.
Ok, fair enough not everyone loves a POD, but a well tweaked POD used by an intelligent person beats the pants off a retard that has tweaked an 8 grand amp for 5 minutes.
 
I remember thinking something similar. :lol:

I also distinctly remember walking by an MG100 fullstack in a shop one day when I had no idea about anything and said to myself, "wow, that must be what Metallica use".

The MG always sounded like the MG 15, only louder. A practice amp for people that want their ass-y practice tones louder:loco:
 
Oh dude there are plenty of adventures I could report off other forums, like getting into arguments with people on sevenstring.org who tell me Rectifiers suck and Powerballs are the way to go.
 
Haha, I think he was referring to me Dylan ;) But yeah, normally I avoid such places, but, well, being a Mesa enthusiast, I couldn't resist this one :D Oh well, once again the Sneap spot reigns supreme! :headbang: