Opeth...In Flames...Cradle of Filth...eh

Alcapoth

Alcapoth

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Apr 27, 2002
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ok, allow me first to start this thread off by saying the song "Cloud Connected" (which I just recently heard) by In Flames caught me by surprise....wasn't expecting to like it, but damn...it's pretty impressive with an addictive beat to it. One of those short kinda songs you can play 10 times in a row and just not get sick of it.

I borrowed the album "reroute to remain" with 14 tracks by In Flames from a friend (and he's not too big on Opeth, btw....weird) and I hear some In Flames and find it good. Thing is, all the other songs are just average metal songs....nothing special and get kinda old quick. That cloud song really does have something....I take it this is the much newer material?


Cradle of Filth.....always thought they had some great melodic stuff (Cruelty and the Beast comes to mind - which is still IMO their opus!)...haven't heard the new stuff yet (onto the Sony label and all). Anyway, great band.

Now....the point. Opeth are my fave band (no surprise there) and I realize they are getting a bit bigger with every album release it seems, sure. But, In Flames and Cradle seem to obviously have more recognition than Opeth right now.


My thought is, how did the audience suddenly find these bands "appealing?" Like, all the sudden my buddies who have never mentioned In Flames before are in love with that cloud song. One of them thought Opeth was alright, saying songs like bleak for example were good, but...still, I don't know. It's the IN FLAMES....what is it, the more "mainstream" sound or something? Because seriously, I don't quite remember In Flames sounding quite like they do now. Growls are still intact, but somehow not too apparent.


Cradle are BIG in their "genre", no doubt....but it seems In Flames can be making their way BIG into the "known." Hmm...wonder why it's so hard for Opeth, even though they are still somewhat bigger (I'm guessing nowhere near IF)


Thoughts?
 
Don't know if you're right about In Flames being bigger than Opeth. I have my own system of judging whether bands are 'big' - whether they've toured Australia. Opeth are just about to embark on their second trip here while In Flames haven't been at all. I would be guessing that the European crowd would be more into In Flames, whereas US seems to be more receptive to Opeth, Mikael said so himself.
 
In Flames - Reroute to Remain is not a bad album at all.... there seems to be a bit of filler though. i think the title track is fucking awesome, and I think the vocal production on that album is exemplary - the chorus of Reroute to Remain sounds awesome.

That being said, it could pay for Anders to learn how to sing clean.... god Metaphor is embarassing... and it's not just cuz it's a poor song.
 
It's not easy to judge the accuracy of a claim comparing the popularity of the bands. You could look at record sales, but even that can be misleading. The way it was put, however, is that within the 'metal scene', In Flames has more recognition than Opeth. Speaking from experience at the Opeth concert in Portland a few months ago, I can say I've seen implications of this being atleast somewhat true. The following scenario was played out in varying forms throughout the night:

"Who's playing tonight?", Jon asked. "Lacuna Coil and Opeth.", responded Will. "Oh cool. I've heard Opeth. Lacuna Coil has that chick right?", said Jon. "Yeah, she's hot.", responded 500 or so eavesdroppers. Noting a flyer for an In Flames concert in the coming month, Jon says "I am so ready for that show, I love In Flames.".

My personal take on what is happening in the case of In Flames and Opeth is that In Flames' style is in a vein that is what most younger and less [musically] mature fans can appreciate more easily. Their music isn't nearly as deep, and tries(quite successfully, it seems) to strike a chord with that less mature, more easily excitable audience. Opeth, on the other hand, doesn't particularly care about pleasing any fanbase. Their style is less marketable among the metal community than In Flames. This keeps Opeth from getting an overly fanatical fanbase.

Cradle of Filth is quite a different story, as I'm sure a lot of people would be able to recognize. Dani has constructed an empire of filth through [sometimes excessively] extreme music. His voice and glorified/horrified gothic appearance was greeted warmly by many who craved the most ardent idea of music.

I sincerely hope that Opeth, Mikael in particular, can avoid the trends in music that drown so many bands.
 
In Flames had The Jester Race, and other classic melodic death albums. Reroute to Remain is a pile of cockwank. Cradle of Filth just generally blow my arse. Opeth forever, maaan.

And the like.
 
Its amazing how little music popularity has to do with the music itself.

The answer to your question is:
1. promotion
2. trends

which both apply to all three bands you mentioned.

sf
 
I think Cradle Of Filth is horrible. They are much more disturbing than they are scary. Their music is watered down black metal mixed with cheesy goth-rock tailored for hopeless teens tired of Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails. Luckily, their core fanbase are deserting them for their mainstream aims.

In Flames' older stuff is amazing. Jester Race, Whoracle, Colony, and parts of Clayman. They're great. R2R is tricky. I do like cloud connected, and trigger is okay, too. However, most of the album is muddy, non-melodic riffs, cheesy dance beats and synths, not to mention Anders Friden's terrible 'clean' voice. He sounds like the guy from Taproot with no grasp of any Western language. A whiny, accented, tuneless voice. He used it well before. The verses of Ordinary Story and the chorus of Pinball Map. It worked then. Now, well...I won't be getting R2R anytime soon.

Opeth, of course, owns.
 
Opeth is shit. everyone album sucks. No argument. My opinion rules all. R2R kicks ass. You guys are too insecure with your musical tastes to like anything outta the realm of cookie monsterness
 
The thing that IF has going for them is that they're an excellent starter band. IF got me started on metal. Clayman was my first melodic metal album. (I had pre-Load Metallica, and some Megadeth.) In Flames is really easy to get into, as the growling isn't that "extreme." Also, the song lengths contribute to their popularity. People with short attention spans won't get into Opeth. IF has no songs longer than six minutes. I think the new IF isn't much compared to the Lunar Strain/Jester Race days, but I still enjoyed RtR. Song length is the reason IF may be more popular on the metal scene.

I don't listen to CoF
 
Posted by AllWithinMyMonster
Opeth is shit. everyone album sucks. No argument. My opinion rules all. R2R kicks ass. You guys are too insecure with your musical tastes to like anything outta the realm of cookie monsterness


Dude, Fuck You. Seriously. I listen to more different kinds of music than you can count. Go fucking suck yourself, you piece of shit.
 
anonymousnick2001 said:
I think Cradle Of Filth is horrible. They are much more disturbing than they are scary. Their music is watered down black metal mixed with cheesy goth-rock tailored for hopeless teens tired of Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails.
Click to expand...

up until Midian they were pretty good.

listen to "cthulu dawn" i love that song
 
It is interesting that you compared the popularity of In Flames, Opeth and Cradle Of Filth because I think these bands represent three totally different marketing systems:

In Flames follow the "conventional" system: Throwing catchy tunes (with quite some substance, though, in this case) at the target audience and selling their albums exactly by the catchiness/energy/heaviness combination; on R2R their sound just approached both thrash and new-metal (and I don't think it's that bad, it just suffers from an unspeakable production and a few fillers).

Opeth go for the "progressive" listeners: Music that isn't easily accessible and has much depth to it. This increases, of course, the "coolness" factor of the band, which explains why they are so big (for a death metal band that is complex and progressive). So people who think In Flames are selling out might just jump onto the Opeth bandwagon because they are less "mainstream".

Cradle Of Filth are one of those marketing phenomena: Music that you would think is too complex and "uncatchy" is sold with make-up, vampires and chicks and appeals to those who listen to metal for the spikes and the leather. The music, however, is (although not really my thing) quite interesting and also appreciated by more demanding metal listeners - which explains their popularity.

(Btw: I love Opeth, like In Flames and appreciate Cradle Of Filth.)

Interestingly, when you say you listen to metal, most people who don't like metal will associate you with Cradle Of Filth, Slipknot and the likes - i.e. the "image" bands.
 
Dudes, I'm loving the responses, some very good points being made...except the reasoning behind AllWithinMyMonster was rather uncalled for and pointless. I'm with agreement with what both mindflesh & Frost-Shatraug have stated in their posts.


Yeah, I agree...the three bands I mentioned are completely different in what they're trying to do. But I had to mention them because of their growing recognition, which is what I wanted to get into here.


I listened reroute to remain a bit more and track 7 begins to grow on me (it's quite alright and decent) - "Dawn of a New Day." It kicks off rather nicely. But I definitely realize they're going for the more shorter, catchy riffs that I can see how people can like and easily get into. I mean, I'll be the first to say I dislike Slipknot, Disturbed, godsmack, Korn, Limp Bizket and Mudvayne and all that kinda stuff...it just isn't for me. Now, it's evident to me the NEW In Flames is going for more of that kinda nu-metal sound, except it is better than all those bands I have just mentioned. The dude I mentioned before that recently discovered In Flames was previously listening to Fear Factory, Sepultera, Pantera and Tool - along those lines. I guess In Flames can be a bit more comparable to these more "known" bands.
* btw, reroute to remain is a pretty alright song as well...like the intro, but that one chorus is kinda dumb and throws me off - rather cheesy. It would have been best to get rid of it.



Cradle of Filth....yep, definitely a band all about image and marketing, and Dani knows it. And damn, some people I am annoyed by that care more about the image a band carries than the actual music. I feel this is how society is now, image is like everything. Too bad people just can't seem to appreciate good music.
Anyway, I'm not saying CoF have terrible music. For what it is, it's damn good...the first and last track of Cruelty and the Beast are damn beautiful in a very dark, sinister way. And Dani is ONE HELL OF A LYRICIST. The wording he uses in Cruelty is almost comparable along those lines of Shakespeare or something. Sure, maybe far-fetched, but damn...the way everything flows, like a story and the choice of words. It is very well done, and you can truly appreciate it. But yeah, this is definitely a band that is recognized for the image and will appeal to all those goth-people that like to wear all black and all that. And, the few like me who don't but just like the music that is being played.



And then there is Opeth...no boundaries. This is a true, great band IMO. Tossing fanboyism aside, this is just truly how I feel. They really know what they are doing, do it fucking well, try knew things and aren't selling out in the process and ditching their fans. If they keep this up, and don't water things down to appeal more easily to a larger audience, they will always have that great respect that Opeth fans have for them. It's true...Peter even said in Brave Worlds and Bloody Knuckles that having no videos and not really being shown on MTV, etc. has given them this sort of greatness, and the fans seem to respect them for that. This is cool I think...where all Opeth songs are in equal tastes, no singles seperating which is THE song sort of speak. To me, they are everything that iS GREAT about music. You get the clean guitar harmonies, heavy guitar riffs of epic proportions, the greatest clean AND growling vocals found in metal IMO and some of the longest songs for your listening pleasure. To me, it just doesn't get any better.
But, like some have said, this style of music FOR SOME reason just isn't very marketable. Only for those who can truly appreciate it I guess. But yeah, Opeth are BIG for what they are...even Mikael should be pleased (and I know he is). But man, they can be bigger....and SHOULD be even bigger.

You know, as big to be noted in "Guitar world" etc for having one of the MOST IMPORTANT METAL ALBUMS of our time kinda thing....seriously, I'm in awe when I see Guns' n Roses and Metallica, even Sepultera and Pantera being noted in greatest metal albums lists and Opeth just isn't there because many people just don't know who they are. But dammit, these guys are the one's breaking new ground, while all the others are just more of the same.


Don't take this too personally, these are just my honest thoughts and feelings. This is something I wanted to get out in the open for quite some time, and I finally did it. Lengthy, I know.
 
Alcapoth said:
ok, allow me first to start this thread off by saying the song "Cloud Connected" (which I just recently heard) by In Flames caught me by surprise....wasn't expecting to like it, but damn...it's pretty impressive with an addictive beat to it. One of those short kinda songs you can play 10 times in a row and just not get sick of it.

I borrowed the album "reroute to remain" with 14 tracks by In Flames from a friend (and he's not too big on Opeth, btw....weird) and I hear some In Flames and find it good. Thing is, all the other songs are just average metal songs....nothing special and get kinda old quick. That cloud song really does have something....I take it this is the much newer material?


Cradle of Filth.....always thought they had some great melodic stuff (Cruelty and the Beast comes to mind - which is still IMO their opus!)...haven't heard the new stuff yet (onto the Sony label and all). Anyway, great band.

Now....the point. Opeth are my fave band (no surprise there) and I realize they are getting a bit bigger with every album release it seems, sure. But, In Flames and Cradle seem to obviously have more recognition than Opeth right now.


My thought is, how did the audience suddenly find these bands "appealing?" Like, all the sudden my buddies who have never mentioned In Flames before are in love with that cloud song. One of them thought Opeth was alright, saying songs like bleak for example were good, but...still, I don't know. It's the IN FLAMES....what is it, the more "mainstream" sound or something? Because seriously, I don't quite remember In Flames sounding quite like they do now. Growls are still intact, but somehow not too apparent.


Cradle are BIG in their "genre", no doubt....but it seems In Flames can be making their way BIG into the "known." Hmm...wonder why it's so hard for Opeth, even though they are still somewhat bigger (I'm guessing nowhere near IF)


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

In Flames really kicked the gothenburg, melodic death movement into orbit - they've become perhaps victims of their own success (only the newest of fans would call reroute to remain good) and its a shame to see such a great, influential and original band go stale.

Cradle suck, theres no two ways about it. The only people that like cradle of filth are attention seeking, slipknot hoodie wearing linkin park fans. They've gotten so big somehow by being the mainstreams 'evil' band, you know..... you tell someone who knows nothing about metal that you like metal, and they'll answer "oh, like iron maiden and cradle of filth" more than likely.

Do yourself a favour and pick up whoracle, clayman or colony to hear in flames do what they do best - any of those albums piss on RTR.
 
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